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Kudoz - Had enough
Thread poster: Natalia Eklund
Myriam Dupouy
Myriam Dupouy  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 10:59
English to French
+ ...
You're not alone...(Sounds like lyrics, eh...The Kudozian's complaint...EPISODE N° ?) Oct 3, 2008

[quote]Stéphanie Soudais wrote:

Once I also complained (and was not the only one) about an asker who never ever gives points and closes all his questions "without grading, reason: other" and without any comment/thank word (the few questions that were closed with points were "automatically selected based on peer agreements"). But I did not get any satisfactory answer...

***

I DID send a support ticket about this lovely person too...
The problem with Kudoz is that it tends to be quite addictive in the end and for an isolated translator (as most of us can be) it also represents a kind of social-professional microcosm. We enjoy meeting and helping colleagues but then, I guess it makes it even worse when we suffer from injustice or aggressive and greedy fellow prozians...I still think the Kudoz system could be greatly improved if the number of points sytem was replaced by the ratio between number of answers and points somehow (not sure I'm making myself clear...) although of course it wouldn't change anything about those strange askers who choose copycats' answers, etc... I think my husband enjoys my Kudoz activity...At least, I complain about askers or answerers (all the time) and no longer about his playing video games or inexistant cooking skills... ;o) Well, actually, more seriously, I also think I'll need a Kudoz sabbatical sooner or later...

Edit : Didn't know I could breathe life into strange little men... ;o

[Edited at 2008-10-03 14:00]


 
Natalia Eklund
Natalia Eklund  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 10:59
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
What to do? Oct 3, 2008

From all your replies, it's interesting to see that everyone agrees!
The only differences come from those who grit their teeth and bear it and those who are just as confounded as I am.

Granted, of course there are more serious problems out there; people are starving, the Arctic is melting, I stepped in dog poo this morning...

I understand those of you who say, 'don't take it seriously', and for a while we can. But, honestly, these low tactics seem to me the equiva
... See more
From all your replies, it's interesting to see that everyone agrees!
The only differences come from those who grit their teeth and bear it and those who are just as confounded as I am.

Granted, of course there are more serious problems out there; people are starving, the Arctic is melting, I stepped in dog poo this morning...

I understand those of you who say, 'don't take it seriously', and for a while we can. But, honestly, these low tactics seem to me the equivalent of suing a good samaritan because his Heimlich maneuver gave you a bruise.

I read the other threads when other users made their declarations like I did today. At the time, I agreed with the people who replied saying, 'we need the good people to stick around'. This is the reason why I tried to stick with it and just take a small break.

I would love to stick around anyway to help (especially if what Kevin says is true and I have a secret fan base (wouldn't that be lovely!)) but as it is now, I don't think I'm capable of seeing it as a game.
I want to help, I like helping, and I like feeling that I helped.
The way things are now at the end of the day I regret helping and feel that my contributions went the way of the above-mentioned dog poo.

From the beginning, I really should have done like Christine suggested: answer and don't look at it again. It does seem like a good approach to avoid being fed to the lions.

----
Just saw Jeff's suggestion:
Eliminate KudoZ points?

On the other hand, some terminology/translation assistance sites survive quite well without the need to award points

Hear Hear! I second the motion! That'll sure calm down the Kudoz hunters, all that scheming for naught...

If that happens and the stakes are lowered, I will definitely step back into the arena, since the fight won't be - To the Death!
(sorry can't help milking my metaphor)
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Shilpa Baliga
 
Cagdas Karatas
Cagdas Karatas  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Local time: 12:59
Member (2007)
English to Turkish
KudoZ has to be taken seriously Oct 3, 2008

There have been so many times that my answers are ignored or selected as best unfairly. In times of injustice (my personal interpretation), I naturally feel offended and end up with trying to figure out what kind of a person the asker could be or what could have made him/her to decide in the way he/she does. I usually share what happened on KudoZ with my wife who is not a translator herself, and she gets mad at me because she thinks I'm taking things too seriously. She urges me to bear in mind a... See more
There have been so many times that my answers are ignored or selected as best unfairly. In times of injustice (my personal interpretation), I naturally feel offended and end up with trying to figure out what kind of a person the asker could be or what could have made him/her to decide in the way he/she does. I usually share what happened on KudoZ with my wife who is not a translator herself, and she gets mad at me because she thinks I'm taking things too seriously. She urges me to bear in mind at all times that askers are human beings and they may have varying moods and educational and professional backgrounds. I calm down but it's bound to be ephemeral calmness because I cannot stop myself from answering questions and making never-ending researches on the web and in the ocean of dictionaries, and there comes aggression and nervousness again and again. However, I have good reasons to make efforts for KudoZ and take it seriously. I believe every person taking a passive attitude towards KudoZ (including my wife) should remember an important point. KudoZ score is the main criterion determining profile rankings in the directory of freelancers in addition to several other aspects of it, and it's definitely something that has to be taken seriously. If only we could make all askers see everything and value every precious effort spent by most answerers.Collapse


 
Roberto Rey
Roberto Rey  Identity Verified
Colombia
Local time: 04:59
Member (2007)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Why Not? Oct 3, 2008

Stéphanie Soudais wrote:

The worst for me is when an asker chooses the answer of someone who replied two minutes before you, with no explanation/references, while you searched the web to find relevant references and finally (obviously) posted the same answer, but two minutes later...On top of that, many members keep agreeing with the fisrt answer, just because it is the first answer.


I don't agree with this, if I know an answer that I don't need to look up or look for references I will still give my input. Sometimes I don't feel like "spending" my time in looking up the term or looking for references, I'm trying to help that's it..the asker should look up the translation and decide what he/she thinks is better.

Many askers are very lazy....


neilmac
 
Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT
Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 10:59
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Kudoz has NOT to be taken seriously... Oct 3, 2008

Çağdaş Karataş wrote:
I usually share what happened on KudoZ with my wife who is not a translator herself, and she gets mad at me because she thinks I'm taking things too seriously.


Your wife is a sensible person. I agree with her!


neilmac
 
Stéphanie Soudais
Stéphanie Soudais  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 10:59
English to French
Of course, but... Oct 3, 2008

Satto (Roberto) wrote:

Stéphanie Soudais wrote:

The worst for me is when an asker chooses the answer of someone who replied two minutes before you, with no explanation/references, while you searched the web to find relevant references and finally (obviously) posted the same answer, but two minutes later...On top of that, many members keep agreeing with the fisrt answer, just because it is the first answer.


I don't agree with this, if I know an answer that I don't need to look up or look for references I will still give my input. Sometimes I don't feel like "spending" my time in looking up the term or looking for references, I'm trying to help that's it..the asker should look up the translation and decide what he/she thinks is better.

Many askers are very lazy....



I know, you are quite right (BTW it reminds me a thread about the topic, like "to give or not give references ?"). I just behave as I would like answerers to behave when they answer MY questions. When I ask a question, I want that someone explains me what a term means, I am not looking for a word that I could put in my translation without knowing its meaning.


 
Stéphanie Soudais
Stéphanie Soudais  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 10:59
English to French
Great !!! Oct 3, 2008

Jeff Whittaker wrote:

On the other hand, some terminology/translation assistance sites survive quite well without the need to award points:
Example: http://forum.wordreference.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=23
http://forum.wordreference.com/forumdisplay.php?f=3



[Edited at 2008-10-03 13:57]


But this has already been suggested more than once by more than one KudoZ user !! See for instance the link I gave in my first post. When this thread was "active", I (and I guess, other contributors as well) was contacted by ProZ staff to give my opinion on the current system compared with other forums in which I participate (where no points are involved). Since then, nothing...I don't know what was made from my comments, whether they were useful or not (they were probably not).

Stéphanie

[Edited at 2008-10-03 15:49]


 
tom_michell
tom_michell  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:59
Spanish to English
+ ...
Introduce Certified PRO filters in Kudoz options Oct 3, 2008

There have been a lot of posts complaining about Kudoz lately (more than normal!) and it seems to be part of a broader feeling amongst those who have been using the site longest that as its popularity has increased, the quality of many site areas has decreased. The creation of the Certified PRO program seems to be about addressing this trend.

My suggestion is that, once the program is up and running, there should be options within Kudoz to only send/receive questions to/from the 'ce
... See more
There have been a lot of posts complaining about Kudoz lately (more than normal!) and it seems to be part of a broader feeling amongst those who have been using the site longest that as its popularity has increased, the quality of many site areas has decreased. The creation of the Certified PRO program seems to be about addressing this trend.

My suggestion is that, once the program is up and running, there should be options within Kudoz to only send/receive questions to/from the 'certified pro' members.

One problem with this that would need looking at is the fact that some of the most knowledgeable site users are not paying members and are therefore excluded from the program but I'm sure this could be worked around. For example, certified pros could nominate them for inclusion within the scope of Kudoz or there could be a points threshold.
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Spiros Doikas
Spiros Doikas  Identity Verified
Local time: 11:59
Member (2002)
English to Greek
+ ...
Help and let go... Oct 3, 2008

Christine Andersen wrote:
Almost always, when I answer a question, I delete the e-mail and make sure I am not tracking any comments etc. I simply do not return to questions I have answered as a rule - unless it was a term I have been puzzled about myself, and I am hoping a colleague will come up with a better suggestion than my own.


I do exactly the same. Kudoz is about helping; once you've thrown in your two cents worth then that's it. Unfortunately, sometimes, so much ego is being invested in sagas about the wrong or the right answer (or "more" right and "less" wrong) that it makes it look like gladiatorial games at the Colosseum: A "v" over the fighters image stood for "vicit" meaning he won. A "p" stood for "periit" meaning he was killed. An "m" stood for "missus", meaning he lost but was spared (does it sound similar to Agree/Disagree/Neutral?).

Sometimes, you get awarded the points for giving the wrong answer.
Sometimes, you don't get awarded the points for giving the right answer.

That is fine, and they tend to balance each other out in the long run.

The only thing that I can hardly find acceptable, is when people's actions are not driven by good will, are not determined by their linguistic insights, and are not based on fair play. But this is hardly surprising, as any community is in fact a microcosm, reflecting the totality of human tendencies, virtues and vices. You can hardly force anyone to be a better person; you can only set the example with your own conduct and hope that mimesis will do the rest.

I keep my fingers crossed.

[Edited at 2008-10-03 16:03]


 
Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT
Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 10:59
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Not going to happen... and I don't agree Oct 3, 2008

Thomas Michell wrote:
My suggestion is that, once the program is up and running, there should be options within Kudoz to only send/receive questions to/from the 'certified pro' members.


This would be very unlikely indeed. And I don't quite agree with that, for one important reason: Certified PRO users will be those who are unlikely to desperately need Kudoz, as they are supposed to have strong research skills and translation capabilities. In an extreme case, a Certified PRO could live perfectly well without Kudoz.

If what you mean is to give people the option just to see questions from Certified PRO members, I am OK with that as long as it is an option only and not an imposition.


 
Stéphanie Soudais
Stéphanie Soudais  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 10:59
English to French
Good idea but... Oct 3, 2008

Thomas Michell wrote:

My suggestion is that, once the program is up and running, there should be options within Kudoz to only send/receive questions to/from the 'certified pro' members.



I do not agree, because as you say it yourself, some great answerers are not paying members. Moreover, I for instance will never be a "certified pro" because my profile is not complete (and I don't want to make it complete), which is the first condition to become "certified pro" -but this is another topic.

[Edited at 2008-10-03 15:55]


 
Enrique Cavalitto
Enrique Cavalitto  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 06:59
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
Options Oct 3, 2008

Jeff Whittaker wrote:

Eliminate KudoZ points?

On the other hand, some terminology/translation assistance sites survive quite well without the need to award points


KudoZ askers are given the option to ask their questions "for points" or "not-for-points". Both options will remain available.

Regards,
Enrique


 
Alain Chouraki
Alain Chouraki  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 10:59
English to French
+ ...
Message in a bottle... through an ocean of confusion Oct 3, 2008

Sometimes, there are translators who ask a question on a specific term where you can see they are already long way far off the subject. And this last query is just a bottle to the sea when the guy has been cast away on the lonely shore of What-the-hell-all-this-means Island.
And many times, we try to help him on this last word or phrase while he is probably drowned in the earlier pages.

Now, as rescue pilots we fly high above where the winds of inspiration carry us through a c
... See more
Sometimes, there are translators who ask a question on a specific term where you can see they are already long way far off the subject. And this last query is just a bottle to the sea when the guy has been cast away on the lonely shore of What-the-hell-all-this-means Island.
And many times, we try to help him on this last word or phrase while he is probably drowned in the earlier pages.

Now, as rescue pilots we fly high above where the winds of inspiration carry us through a clear blue sky. And after few circles, we try our best to get a parcel dumped on this nowhere land, hoping it will reach the poor guy. But sometimes he's already gone in his mind, half catatonic, showing no reaction when one asks him to signal his position on the territory (more context, please!), or he's been so used to eat crab and coconuts his stomach won't stand more consistent intellectual food. Who knows? At last he may have gone raving mad and throw the parcel to the sea, when he doesn't raise his fist towards you like if you were against him.

Yes, that's a pity!

And that's the riddle...
How on Earth someone who is lost and confused can show enough understanding and take clever decisions? Well, for those who use to carefully understand what they read and translate and are only occasionnally asking the single word or difficult point... fine! They can stil be saved... but for the many others... the castaways... what can we do?

As far as I am concerned, I keep flying in circles and dump as many parcels of understanding as I can, hoping it will reach someone someday (and sometimes, thanks God! it does). And for those who like to think of themselves as different... well... I'd say this : "Don't get off that plane... keep flying... your simple action, with or without the rewards and medals, make it a better... kudoz?"

Let's stop to expect cleverness from someone who is dazed from too many misunderstood words and phrases...

I know what I am talking about... I have been an asker too!

[Modifié le 2008-10-03 16:40]

[Modifié le 2008-10-03 16:42]
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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT
Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 10:59
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Best sentence in Kudoz discussions ever! Oct 3, 2008

Alain Chouraki wrote:
Now, as rescue pilots we fly high above where the winds of inspiration carry us through a clear blue sky.


I loved this Alain. Great stuff. It's probably the best sentence in the lengthy, repetitive (I include my own statements and complaints of course), and probably useless discussions about Kudoz. Your reply was very refreshing because of the lovely depictions.


 
Kevin Lossner
Kevin Lossner  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 09:59
German to English
+ ...
All things in moderation Oct 3, 2008

Çağdaş Karataş wrote:
I believe every person taking a passive attitude towards KudoZ ... should remember an important point. KudoZ score is the main criterion determining profile rankings in the directory of freelancers ....


Yes, but sometimes I wonder if too much of a good thing might not have a toxic effect. I have enough points to end up on the first search results page for a few of the subjects I care most about (or I did last time I checked), but I'm not sure I would benefit from a higher score. If I came out on top of a search for a translator with experience in chemistry with something like 50,000 KudoZ points, one might legitimately ask when I find the time to do any translation.


Claudio Porcellana (X)
 
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Kudoz - Had enough






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