| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Problems with agencies that don't pay: What can a freelancer do? Thread poster: Jillian Pandor
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| Invoice address | Oct 24, 2013 |
Jillian Prevost wrote:
Can I still quote this law if on my invoice I have my American address?? I did this project over the summer when I was in the US and now I am back in Spain dealing with this problem. What I don't want is for them to find a loophole and try to tell me that the EU laws don't apply to me because my invoice states I am living in the US.
Thanks again so much!
Jillian
Of course, your invoice must have been issued with a European address, as these laws don't apply to the US.
BTW, why did you invoice with your American address? Do you have your permanent residence in Spain and pay your taxes there? Your invoices must always have the address of the country where you pay your income taxes, no matter where you do the job. At least in Europe it works like this, not sure for the US, though.
| | | | Mervyn Henderson (X) 
Spain
Local time: 19:12
Spanish to English
+ ...
| "Discount" for prompt payment | Oct 24, 2013 |
Happily I've learned from my mistakes in the past, and now I only have customers who don't pay late. New customers are asked to send a SPECIFIC e-mail saying they agree to pay at 30 CALENDAR days of delivery (which is a good idea too, because it brings it out in the open, makes it clear from the start and cuts out any of the working days/end-of-month shenanigans), but I'm told this other one works too, as long as you're free to set your price ...
Think of a number. The price you wa... See more Happily I've learned from my mistakes in the past, and now I only have customers who don't pay late. New customers are asked to send a SPECIFIC e-mail saying they agree to pay at 30 CALENDAR days of delivery (which is a good idea too, because it brings it out in the open, makes it clear from the start and cuts out any of the working days/end-of-month shenanigans), but I'm told this other one works too, as long as you're free to set your price ...
Think of a number. The price you want to be paid, that is. Quietly add 10-15% to it, and then announce that as the rate, and that they have a 10-15% discount for payment at 30 days, and you should be laughing all the way to the bank.
All the best,
Mervyn ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jillian Pandor
United States
Local time: 13:12
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Invoice Address | Oct 24, 2013 |
Hi Everyone!
My invoice address is always my United States permanent address seeing as I am a United States citizen and that is where I pay taxes.
Like you all have mentioned...where I am at the moment of the translation (for example if I am here in Spain) is not reflected in my invoices since my business is based out of the United States.
I guess my real question is, which I think the answer is going to be a "no," since I am considered an American business... See more Hi Everyone!
My invoice address is always my United States permanent address seeing as I am a United States citizen and that is where I pay taxes.
Like you all have mentioned...where I am at the moment of the translation (for example if I am here in Spain) is not reflected in my invoices since my business is based out of the United States.
I guess my real question is, which I think the answer is going to be a "no," since I am considered an American business, can I reference this EU law about the 40€ and charge them this amount?
And if not, basically since I am not part of the EU the company can just wait months and months to pay me with no consequences? There has to be some other way...right?
I have every intention of sending them a burofax/certified mail and setting forth the next actions that I plan to take if they don't pay me in 7 days time...but basically I am trying to figure out what those actions could be.
Sorry for all of these issues but I really do appreciate all of your help!
Jillian ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jillian Pandor
United States
Local time: 13:12
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Mervyn Henderson wrote:
Think of a number. The price you want to be paid, that is. Quietly add 10-15% to it, and then announce that as the rate, and that they have a 10-15% discount for payment at 30 days, and you should be laughing all the way to the bank.
Mervyn
I love the idea! However...I have known people that have had some problems with this. For example: companies that pay at 40 days and continue to take the discount. Do you know anyone who has experienced that?
I like your idea about the specific email! Do you ever have any resistance to that? I assume that YOU are the one that is setting the pay period then, and not the agency? I am always concerned about agencies that want 60-90 day pay periods...do these agencies also end up agreeing to the 30 day terms?
Lately it feels like it's hard enough to find a company that will accept my rates (that are not ridiculously low, but they are anything but high) and thinking about adding 10-15% on top of it may make it even more difficult to find companies that aren't only concerned about finding the cheapest translator (which is a very frustrating trend!).
Thanks for the great ideas!
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Mervyn Henderson (X)
Spain
Local time: 19:12
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Not so much resistance sometimes ... | Oct 24, 2013 |
... as a refusal at the first fence. The reason I have time to write this today is that a new customer was told about the 30 days, and called the proposed job off. They didn't say as much, though, and told me they'd found an alternative, but I suspect that's what it was - I had done a bit of pre-job homework too, and was fairly sure it was a 60-day customer, with the end-of-month bit for good measure. Which is fine by me, for they can do what they like as well. But it's always better to get thin... See more ... as a refusal at the first fence. The reason I have time to write this today is that a new customer was told about the 30 days, and called the proposed job off. They didn't say as much, though, and told me they'd found an alternative, but I suspect that's what it was - I had done a bit of pre-job homework too, and was fairly sure it was a 60-day customer, with the end-of-month bit for good measure. Which is fine by me, for they can do what they like as well. But it's always better to get things straight from the start, 'cos it avoids all the "but we thought ..."s, "no, all our translators work this way ..."s and "no, our terms of payment state ..."s, not to mention the slightly more imaginative "our accountant is off on holiday/depressed/on a business trip/sadly deceased"s.
Bye,
Mervyn ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 18:12
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| You're running a US business from Spain? | Oct 24, 2013 |
If you're based in the US for invoicing purposes, I doubt that you can enforce EU rules. In fact, I doubt that there's much you can do with this particular client apart from escalating the payment demands, although that does often work. I don't believe you can retrospectively demand anything that wasn't stated upfront. Interest and expenses (court rather than postage expenses) are automatically charged to the losing party in the EU courts, and in this clear-cut type of non-payment case, the lose... See more If you're based in the US for invoicing purposes, I doubt that you can enforce EU rules. In fact, I doubt that there's much you can do with this particular client apart from escalating the payment demands, although that does often work. I don't believe you can retrospectively demand anything that wasn't stated upfront. Interest and expenses (court rather than postage expenses) are automatically charged to the losing party in the EU courts, and in this clear-cut type of non-payment case, the loser will always be the client. The court expenses can be very high: I've only been down that route once but my ex-client had to fork out double the amount he owed me. That's justice!
However, there's nothing to stop you referring to the rulings in your letter, as in "your own EU rules call for payment within.... so you can hardly call this unjustified", although not in those exact words, of course.
But your set-up seems rather odd. Are you permanently (as in most of every year) living in Spain, spending euros and presumably paying some sort of tax in Spain? And yet you're issuing invoices from a US address, getting clients to pay USD into a US bank account, and having US law govern your business? What do you do about health care etc? (Don't answer that if you'd rather not, it just seems to me to be a bizarre situation.) I've heard that US citizens have to pay taxes to the home country wherever they live (damned cheek, I call it), but surely you should be registered in Spain, shouldn't you? It doesn't stop your taxes being paid to the US under reciprocal tax agreements between the two countries. What would you do if you didn't have an address in the US?
I know next to nothing about these things but it would certainly simplify your payment procedures if you were registered in Spain. You'd simply follow up your final demand with a claim to the Small Claims Court. Or a European Payment Order if the client was based in another EU country. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jillian Pandor
United States
Local time: 13:12
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I agree and definitely think that these EU laws should be referenced (even if they don't technically apply to me).
As far as what you mention about running a US business from Spain, that's not the case. At the current moment I happen to be in Spain for a short time (for personal reasons), but I am not all permanently here.
I had just figured that by physically being in the country, like I am now, it would give me some sort of advantage when dealing with this payment pr... See more I agree and definitely think that these EU laws should be referenced (even if they don't technically apply to me).
As far as what you mention about running a US business from Spain, that's not the case. At the current moment I happen to be in Spain for a short time (for personal reasons), but I am not all permanently here.
I had just figured that by physically being in the country, like I am now, it would give me some sort of advantage when dealing with this payment problem...but obviously that is not the case.
Sorry for any confusion and thanks again for all of your help! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 18:12
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
OK, I see there was some confusion.
Jillian Prevost wrote:
I had just figured that by physically being in the country, like I am now, it would give me some sort of advantage when dealing with this payment problem...but obviously that is not the case.
It doesn't affect the legal status a jot, but a knock on their door might work wonders. Just imagine the effect of being face to face with you when they thought you were safely 1000s of kilometres away at the end of the telephone.
Just a final comment: it does sound as though they're maybe in a "can't pay" rather than a "won't pay" situation at the moment. Hopefully short-lived but cash-slow is critical at the moment all over the EU and especially in Spain. In cases like that, it's often the supplier who makes the most noise who gets paid first.
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Sheila Wilson wrote:
In cases like that, it's often the supplier who makes the most noise who gets paid first.
The squeaky wheel gets the oil!
| | | | | Thanks for all the tips, I will have to apply them and will. | Oct 24, 2013 |
I am also not based in Europe and that is one aspect of the problem.
I am far away and bad payers are hard to get.
I am based in Senegal and have one company in Poland not paying me an invoice over €1200+ which was due 29 september, and is now 1 month overdue.
I did look at the Blueboard entries before accepting the PO. One translator had given a 1 for non-payment, but later she added a 5 for good cooperation.
This should have alarmed me.
... See more I am also not based in Europe and that is one aspect of the problem.
I am far away and bad payers are hard to get.
I am based in Senegal and have one company in Poland not paying me an invoice over €1200+ which was due 29 september, and is now 1 month overdue.
I did look at the Blueboard entries before accepting the PO. One translator had given a 1 for non-payment, but later she added a 5 for good cooperation.
This should have alarmed me.
The PM/owner wrote me only after 3 reminder emails and one text message to his cell phone stating that he already wrote me he would pay the end of October.
I did give him a 3 on the Blue Board for this.
I have worked with agencies all around the world, they all paid me. However, the Dutch are the best payers. Always in time, without any hassle, sometimes even early payment.
This event (I am in need of the money) has made me change my selection criteria for agencies: they must be big and all 5's on the Blue Board. This is the best advice I can give.
For the American translator: the richer a countries economy, the more correctly the agencies pay.
Thanks everybody for all the tips, esp. the 'stronger' ones. I will try to apply them because I fear otherwise I will not get my money. For the rest everybody: use the Blue Board, it's our protection!
[Edited at 2013-10-24 15:18 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Thanks for the excellent advice! | Nov 4, 2013 |
I just want to thank you all for the excellent advice. I found this discussion thread because I am having a similar problem with an agency that I had never worked with until recently. I have rarely had the experience of not being paid, and in the past the amounts were small so I wrote them off. This particular job for the client in question was very large, and the sum in question is sizable. I do not want to let this go. Thank you for the strategies and suggestions.
| | | | | About negotiating under 60 days payment term | Nov 4, 2013 |
Hello,
Recently a French translation agency contacted me for a translation and the PM says that their standard payment period is 60 days, and it is possible to be paid 30 days after completion with a 3% discount ("escompte" in French).
I wonder: is this a common pratice from agencies? Why should I be paid less when other agencies usually pay 30 days after completion of the translation?
Regards,
AC
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Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 18:12
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Very good question indeed | Nov 4, 2013 |
Alexandre Chetrite wrote:
Why should I be paid less when other agencies usually pay 30 days after completion of the translation?
Absolutely no reason on earth, IMHO. There's a fundamental flaw in their thinking: YOU are the one who GIVES discounts. You aren't a dog to fawn at their feet in return for morsels. That's my personal opinion.
But then again, if you're desperate for work and they actually DO pay what they say they'll pay, on time.... It's a free world. Just don't accept slavery, in other words, only accept what you're prepared to accept.
| | | | Juliane Roth
France
Local time: 19:12
Member (2005)
English to German
+ ...
| ...and now? Any advise? | Nov 19, 2013 |
I have been following this discussion because I also have a client who does not pay. Meantime some invoices are paid. 1 invoice (the last one) is now again past due. After one invoice was past due (for several weeks) I did give the agency a 1 in the BB…boy did they let me have it!
Anyway, now that the last invoice is past due I wrote again advising the agency of my future actions, which would be to open a forum in regards to this matter (which is already open). His answer and I q... See more I have been following this discussion because I also have a client who does not pay. Meantime some invoices are paid. 1 invoice (the last one) is now again past due. After one invoice was past due (for several weeks) I did give the agency a 1 in the BB…boy did they let me have it!
Anyway, now that the last invoice is past due I wrote again advising the agency of my future actions, which would be to open a forum in regards to this matter (which is already open). His answer and I quote “In order to make your comment true please forget your outstanding invoices, they will NOT be paid.”
Meantime I send a registered letter with return receipt to the agency. This has been 2 weeks ago and nothing happened as of yet. Now I am looking for a collection agency in Italy. This is the first time something like this happened to me and I am just amazed about this kind of naughtiness. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:12
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| Just one thing | Nov 19, 2013 |
I would add just one thing, Jillian:
Resolve in your own mind that *you are going to make these people pay you*.
There's nothing they'd like better than for you to just give up on a relatively small amount that (they think) is not worth the cost of hiring a local lawyer.
That should be exactly where they are wrong.
So do the BlueBoard thing and ask Prozian colleagues in Spain for the name of a good lawyer based in the same place as the agency.<... See more I would add just one thing, Jillian:
Resolve in your own mind that *you are going to make these people pay you*.
There's nothing they'd like better than for you to just give up on a relatively small amount that (they think) is not worth the cost of hiring a local lawyer.
That should be exactly where they are wrong.
So do the BlueBoard thing and ask Prozian colleagues in Spain for the name of a good lawyer based in the same place as the agency.
You will certainly get results that way. The mere mention of a lawyer - especially if it's a local lawyer - is usually enough to put the fear of God into people.
But you must be convinced that you are going to take this to the wire. There's a principle involved. And of course if you have to take on a lawyer, the lawyer will also recoup all legal charges, so it shouldn't cost you anything.
[Edited at 2013-11-19 07:56 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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