| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Control of rates should always! reside in the hands of translators, not LSPs. Thread poster: Bernhard Sulzer
|
|---|
Money matters. So do ethics. Please feel free to comment.
IMO, there is a big problem with the following statement from Proz.com FAQ:
"...we[= Proz.com] believe that control of rates does (and should!) reside in the hands of service providers." (see below)*
a) "Service provider" can be (mis)understood as LSP - Language Service Provider - which is generally understood as translation agenc... See more Money matters. So do ethics. Please feel free to comment.
IMO, there is a big problem with the following statement from Proz.com FAQ:
"...we[= Proz.com] believe that control of rates does (and should!) reside in the hands of service providers." (see below)*
a) "Service provider" can be (mis)understood as LSP - Language Service Provider - which is generally understood as translation agency, not individual translators. ( https://accuratelanguageservices.com/language-service-provider/ )
It is my belief that the actual translator or person who carries out the translation or language project should be in charge/control of setting the price/rate for their service, not their client, e.g. an LSP. I hoped that Proz.com would make that clear.
b) However, on the Proz.com job board, LSPs (and any other poster) are in fact in control of "setting" rate ranges for the service they receive from translation experts. They can post rate or price ranges (e.g. $2 -$5 per hour - yes this is a recent actual example).
c) "ProZ.com has no intention of instituting a minimum rate mechanism" (see link below)*. This statement combined with the unrestricted control LSPs/job posters have on the job board encourages the posting of absolutely outrageous and unacceptably low rate range "demands."
There are a few things I suggest Proz.com should change with regard to its policies.
I am afraid that ignoring these problems will make it very hard to believe professional marketing of one's services is even possible here or that Proz.com is indeed interested in supporting translators first.
Please see my discussion below (in bold):
* https://www.proz.com/faq/jobs#jobs_minimum_rate
2.35 - Why doesn't ProZ.com set a minimum rate for translation? [Direct link]
At times, the suggestion has been made that site staff institute some form of technical mechanism to dictate minimums. Although ProZ.com has instituted certain mechanisms which may help to stabilize rates (see the FAQ on rates), ProZ.com has no intention of instituting a minimum rate mechanism in the near future, for the following reason:
We believe that each member should be entitled to set his or her own minimum rates. We provide a rates calculator to assist site users in making the necessary considerations, and provide optional filters so that in effect, a site user can set his/her own minimum rate. This is in line with the site's philosophy of not interfering in members' businesses.
Discussion: Member - what does that mean? All members, all paid members, all LSPs posting jobs on the job board? IMO, this should be changed to translation expert or translator. He/she is indeed entitled to set rates, minimum and otherwise. This has nothing to do with membership. Just to be clear.
What is not right in my opinion is that the poster sets a rate range and that that rate range can be AS LOW AS THEY WANT. Compare a demand of $2 - $5 /hr for a translation job (8 hours a day, 5 days a week - real example) to the legal minimum wage in the USA (LOWEST MINIMUM WAGE: $7.25/hr.) When it is an agency, say from California, that sets such a demand, the comparable minimum wage in California is $12.00/hr.
How is it acceptable to any paying professional member here that next to their online shop window they face such unprofessional but obviously sanctioned competition?
If that is not reason enough, consider that:
(1) Even if it were conceptually possible and advisable to set a minimum rate, we would not currently have a means of enforcing it.
Discussion: This is not true for the job board. Proz.com can institute minimum amounts, below which a poster would not be able to post his/her job.
(2) Whether attempting to set a minimum is legal or not is an open question, and not one on which we have had adequate advice (comments from lawyers are welcome: http://www.proz.com/support )
Discussion: Proz.com has been saying this for years. They welcome comments from lawyers. I don't think that's all I should expect Proz.com to do in the interest of its professional and paying members.
"Professional" should be the keyword on this site. I would like to know why Proz.com isn't at all concerned when someone on the job board demands an absolutely outrageous rate range of $2 - $5 per hour for a translation job (basically "take it or leave it")?
Who do you think will actually get the job, the person who bids $2 or the person who bids $5 per hour?
I can hear excuses -- oh, I'm new, I'll do it for practice; oh, I don't depend on the money; oh, it's better to do anything and get paid whatever; oh, it's a free market ...... By the way, every market has rules and regulations except translator platform job boards! Enabling or accepting such behavior is like sticking one's head in the sand believing it will not affect the translation market at all. Remember, this is still the world's largest translation job exchange.
(3) Other sites have attempted to set minimum rates, with no apparent effect.
This is in fact incorrect. I can name at least one other platform that has instituted a minimum rate below which the job post is considered a violation of the site rules. It's been like that for years.
It is in the interest of translators, and ProZ.com, for rates charged to be consistent with the demands of our challenging profession. To that end, ProZ.com's staff has welcomed and encouraged legal communication and cooperation among translators. But we believe that control of rates does (and should!) reside in the hands of service providers.
Discussion: This is indeed a challenging profession. And especially now during the Covid-19 crisis, its market behavior affects us all even more. But control of rates does not reside in our hands as far as the job board is concerned and it has a big impact on rates that we are able to charge. Proz.com is a platform allowing LSPs and any other job posters to decide what they want to pay and post it in form of rate ranges or price ranges on the job board. Proz.com does influence the development of rates in general by being the major platform/medium through which these rates are made public in a very acceptable way. While it might be true that Proz.com cannot do anything about what a translator quotes in direct communication with a LSP client or any other client, it does have the power to curtail unacceptably low price demands on the job board.
I would suggest: Proz.com should no longer allow job posters to post rates or prices or rate and price ranges for jobs they post on the job board.
The control for setting the price must reside with the translator, and it is my opinion that Proz.com should not interfere with the relationship between translator and client (esp. with regard to LSPs). But it does by giving the latter the power to define the price as price or rate range.
From Henry, Proz.com founder and CEO:
https://www.proz.com/translation-articles/articles/964/
8. Translators are at the core of ProZ.com. ProZ.com serves the entire translation industry by serving translators first. Recognizing that the players in the translation industry--translators, translation companies and end clients--are complementary, the site provides a fair and open workplace in which all parties can meet and work transparently and efficiently.
My comment:
"... serving translators first."
Please let that sink in.
And please consider: Professionals will appreciate a platform where they're treated like professionals. Because if that doesn't happen, why should professionals support that platform?!
[Edited at 2020-08-27 22:43 GMT]
[Edited at 2020-08-27 22:52 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | | Sheila Wilson 
Spain
Local time: 11:56
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Things changed -- Posters cannot post rates now | Aug 28, 2020 |
Bernhard Sulzer wrote: "...we[= Proz.com] believe that control of rates does (and should!) reside in the hands of service providers." (see below)* a) "Service provider" can be (mis)understood as LSP - Language Service Provider - which is generally understood as translation agency, not individual translators. ( https://accuratelanguageservices.com/language-service-provider/ ) It is my belief that the actual translator or person who carries out the translation or language project should be in charge/control of setting the price/rate for their service, not their client, e.g. an LSP. I hoped that Proz.com would make that clear.
An LSP is an agency. I agree that it's a confusing name. But that FAQ seems quite clear to me. It isn't talking about "the LSP" but about the person providing the service, i.e. the translator.
b) However, on the Proz.com job board, LSPs (and any other poster) are in fact in control of "setting" rate ranges for the service they receive from translation experts. They can post rate or price ranges (e.g. $2 -$5 per hour - yes this is a recent actual example).
But outsourcers are banned from posting rates or price ranges. You should have reported it. I do, and they're removed with lightning speed normally. All outsourcers can do is give a budget in an optional blue box. There's a note on there that says that in no way are we obliged to quote within that budget. You can also choose not to see the budget. AFAIK, non-members (i.e. free users) don't get to see it at all.
| | | | | $2.00 USD to $5.00 USD per hour | Aug 28, 2020 |
I recently contacted Proz about a job offering the rate stated in the title.
They answered me just what you write, Bernhard: "We believe that each member should be entitled to set his or her own minimum rates."
But as much as I can accept or not the job, I can also decide NOT to renew my membership with Proz if I feel they no longer are "on my side".
This rate -$2.00 USD to $5.00 USD per hour- is just insulting. A cleaning lady makes twice as much in France... See more I recently contacted Proz about a job offering the rate stated in the title.
They answered me just what you write, Bernhard: "We believe that each member should be entitled to set his or her own minimum rates."
But as much as I can accept or not the job, I can also decide NOT to renew my membership with Proz if I feel they no longer are "on my side".
This rate -$2.00 USD to $5.00 USD per hour- is just insulting. A cleaning lady makes twice as much in France (or more). ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Let’s give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar: this is not an EC report, this is the final report of a research project funded by the European Commission’s Directorate-General for Translation.
| | | | | I too contacted ProZ about this job | Aug 28, 2020 |
Christophe Delaunay wrote:
I recently contacted Proz about a job offering the rate stated in the title.
They answered me just what you write, Bernhard: "We believe that each member should be entitled to set his or her own minimum rates."
But as much as I can accept or not the job, I can also decide NOT to renew my membership with Proz if I feel they no longer are "on my side".
This rate -$2.00 USD to $5.00 USD per hour- is just insulting. A cleaning lady makes twice as much in France (or more).
They answered the same of course, i.e. that I could set my minimum rate so I would not be bothered with job offers like that (apart from the fact that I don't even translate from English and I got it nonwithstanding).
But I believe that no professional in the world of sound mind would ever work for 5 USD an hour, not to speak for 2 USD, and *at least* 40 hours a week! So nobody will ever set his/her minimum rate to 2 or even 5 USD!
I answered that this job offer must be a spam and could in no way be taken seriously and hence should absolutely not have been published on a professional site (see also other "very strange" requirements, like having an "engineering background", being "humble" and patient", sic!), because it's utmost ridiculous and beyond belief. It was obviously to be considered a joke.
Clearly you can't please everyone, and sometimes you need to take a position.
Bernhard Sulzer wrote
And please consider: Professionals will appreciate a platform where they're treated like professionals. Because if that doesn't happen, why should professionals support that platform?!
[Bearbeitet am 2020-08-28 19:02 GMT]
| | | | Bernhard Sulzer
United States
Local time: 06:56
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | I did report that job to staff too and ... | Aug 28, 2020 |
... got the same reply as Christel and others. The job wasn't pulled.
Outsourcers are not banned from posting rate ranges or price ranges. They can do it in a dedicated field. Members can choose not to see it, or, as I would call that, stick their head in the sand.
Sheila Wilson wrote: Bernhard Sulzer wrote: "...we[= Proz.com] believe that control of rates does (and should!) reside in the hands of service providers." (see below)* a) "Service provider" can be (mis)understood as LSP - Language Service Provider - which is generally understood as translation agency, not individual translators. ( https://accuratelanguageservices.com/language-service-provider/ ) It is my belief that the actual translator or person who carries out the translation or language project should be in charge/control of setting the price/rate for their service, not their client, e.g. an LSP. I hoped that Proz.com would make that clear. An LSP is an agency. I agree that it's a confusing name. But that FAQ seems quite clear to me. It isn't talking about "the LSP" but about the person providing the service, i.e. the translator. b) However, on the Proz.com job board, LSPs (and any other poster) are in fact in control of "setting" rate ranges for the service they receive from translation experts. They can post rate or price ranges (e.g. $2 -$5 per hour - yes this is a recent actual example). But outsourcers are banned from posting rates or price ranges. You should have reported it. I do, and they're removed with lightning speed normally. All outsourcers can do is give a budget in an optional blue box. There's a note on there that says that in no way are we obliged to quote within that budget. You can also choose not to see the budget. AFAIK, non-members (i.e. free users) don't get to see it at all.
[Edited at 2020-08-28 19:22 GMT]
| | | | | Uber drivers also thought they were in charge | Aug 29, 2020 |
Random thoughts (perhaps a little off-topic, but keeping to Bernhard’s long-running theme)
horse-drawn carriages > automobiles > driverless cars
Today, I can log in to an app, step out into my street and get behind the wheel of a renting organisation’s car for a few euros an hour (all-inclusive).
In a few years’ time, I’ll simply be able to chuck a package (or, heck, a child…) in there and let the car drive off to a selected destination on its own.
... See more Random thoughts (perhaps a little off-topic, but keeping to Bernhard’s long-running theme)
horse-drawn carriages > automobiles > driverless cars
Today, I can log in to an app, step out into my street and get behind the wheel of a renting organisation’s car for a few euros an hour (all-inclusive).
In a few years’ time, I’ll simply be able to chuck a package (or, heck, a child…) in there and let the car drive off to a selected destination on its own.
I am quite sure my current car is the last one I will ever own (even if I ever need to go on a longer trip).
translation > post-editing machine translation > ?
Face it, the golden era of translation is behind us, we are the equivalent of uber drivers, a cog in the machine – the idea is to drive prices down and, ultimately, make us obsolete. At the moment, we're running to stand still. In the future, there will be a niche for “special-event” chauffeurs/translators – fiction, perhaps classified documents, etc. – but that’s about it. I’m just hoping I can make it through the next 15 years until retirement (I’m surprised I’m still standing, to be honest).
For as long as Bernhard (for whom I have the greatest respect) has been complaining about sinking prices, I’ve been saying the end is nigh for our industry. We both need to see reality: the sky is falling in, but not as quickly as some of us think. ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Edward Potter
Spain
Local time: 12:56
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
| The ebbs and flows of business | Aug 31, 2020 |
horse-drawn carriages > automobiles > driverless cars
translation > post-editing machine translation > ?
Face it, the golden era of translation is behind us, we are the equivalent of uber drivers, a cog in the machine – the idea is to drive prices down and, ultimately, make us obsolete. At the moment, we're running to stand still.
the end is nigh for our industry. We both need to see reality: the sky is falling in, but not as quickly as some of us think.
Nice comments. I'll respond with more ramblings.
We may be on our way out in a few years. How much is a horse taxi driver worth? An ice deliveryman? A VCR repairman?
The market is what it is. Somebody might be testing the market with abnormally low rates. To a professional it makes them look like they don't have much experience. On the other hand, maybe they don't care, grab a quick profit and everyone got what they wanted.
I don't think it is a good idea for this web site to restrict prices on the postings. Things should be allowed to run their course. We get all types here. Some are less experienced in finding a translator than others.
Finally, it should be noted that a lot is going on behind the scenes in Proz. Many outsourcers directly contact the translators through their profiles instead of posting. These are often better jobs than what everyone can see publicly.
| | | | Bernhard Sulzer
United States
Local time: 06:56
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | "It is what it is" unfortunately | Aug 31, 2020 |
Hi Edward. Couple of thoughts. No offense intended.
Edward Potter wrote:
Nice comments. I'll respond with more ramblings.
We may be on our way out in a few years. How much is a horse taxi driver worth? An ice deliveryman? A VCR repairman?
Well, I am not going to be just "out" in a few years. There is plenty of serious work for translators in the future. But it needs to be paid fairly. And I don't buy your comparisons.
Problem is people can do whatever they want on this platform unfortunately. It's not right since every other sector pretty much works within established market rules. Low blow demands on a job board aren't a market rule I can accept. Seems many colleagues do because they believe they're not affected by it. As you allude to the changing situation in our sector, this attitude is at least questionable. If the industry is in trouble, we need to figure out a way to uphold standards and professionalism. This job board system with clients deciding what they pay and how little they pay won't do any more. This is my last effort to appeal to colleagues and Proz.com.
Edward Potter wrote:
The market is what it is. You know this is similar to someone over here describing the Covid-19 situation. I assume you don't mean it that way. You are just pointing to the market. Proz.com is part of that market, the platform that makes it possible to demand $2 - $5 dollars per hour for a job, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, or 3 to 4 Cents per word or less. And it's not so much about which crazy person will take them up on it, but about the fact that Proz.com has declared not to want to interfere with rates and wants us to believe they don't. If you think about it, you know that this isn't what's happening. The very fact the platform exists MAKES THIS POSSIBLE.
Edward Potter wrote:
Somebody might be testing the market with abnormally low rates. To a professional it makes them look like they don't have much experience. On the other hand, maybe they don't care, grab a quick profit and everyone got what they wanted.
Well, I disagree completely. Testing the market with abnormally low rates? Please check my original headline which, on paper, is supported by Proz.com. I don't go to Barnes & Noble, and "test" the book-selling market by throwing down a $2 bill and walking away with the latest bestseller. They don't have much experience? Sorry, give me a break. They probably have plenty of experience looking at other prices on the job board. This is price dumping of the worst kind. Sanctioned by Proz.com, albeit indirectly - but that's beside the point.
And you bet, they grab a quick profit and EVERYONE is happy? Mmh, yeah, well, I'm not. This has repercussions for me and the market, It's happening every day here, over and over again. This isn't putting translators first!
Edward Potter wrote:
I don't think it is a good idea for this web site to restrict prices on the postings. Things should be allowed to run their course. We get all types here. Some are less experienced in finding a translator than others.
What course are things running here? Rates are run into the ground. And you're right, we get all types here. I have to try marketing myself next to a certain type of let's call it incredibly cheap "shop" window. Less experience or devious behavior by posters is no excuse for allowing this to happen IMO. I mean Proz.com has been around for 20 years. They can institute minimum rates for posting or (my preference) just do away with it for all posters. Easily done.
Edward Potter wrote:
Finally, it should be noted that a lot is going on behind the scenes in Proz. Many outsourcers directly contact the translators through their profiles instead of posting. These are often better jobs than what everyone can see publicly.
I can only tell you my experience. It's not worth it. I am inundated with unsolicited resumes from translators (mostly shockingly bad) and mass emails of incredibly low job offers, mainly from Middle Eastern countries, India and China. The once-in-a-blue-moon acceptable contact has more and more declined over the years. Either rules will change asap or I am leaving. This isn't professional marketing. This is about making Proz.com a profit without getting back what I expect from them. An that in a time of a worldwide pandemic.
[Edited at 2020-08-31 05:07 GMT]
| | | | | Multiple variables | Aug 31, 2020 |
I agree wholeheartidly with the original post, although I'd give LSPs and clients at least some negociating power. Just like they abuse negotiating power ("accept terrible rates or we ask someone else"), clients and LSPs shouldn't be in a position where translators ask way too much.
Now, that being said, the biggest challenge would be to establish at least a fair minimum and negotiate from there. The problem is that this minimum can vary greatly according to the languages involved, the spe... See more I agree wholeheartidly with the original post, although I'd give LSPs and clients at least some negociating power. Just like they abuse negotiating power ("accept terrible rates or we ask someone else"), clients and LSPs shouldn't be in a position where translators ask way too much.
Now, that being said, the biggest challenge would be to establish at least a fair minimum and negotiate from there. The problem is that this minimum can vary greatly according to the languages involved, the speciality (medical, tourism, geology...), the task in itself (translation, interpretation, subtitling...) or even the country of residence of both client and translator. The latter here is problematic since you can't expect a translator living in France to accept, let's say, the rates an Indian company is able to propose, because the cost of living is simply not the same.
This is an issue that goes beyond ProZ itself and, since they're here for themselves first, not translators, I don't think this is an effort we will see. But I do believe that it is something that should be done on the industry as a whole, even just to tip the balance in the right direction. Problem is, I don't see this happening without an industry-wide (more like translator-wide) effort, because the only way clients and LSPs will accept is if everyone says "No, I won't do any task until we're all paid decently."
If we can work something like that on ProZ, that could set a good example and might initiate a wake-up call, though. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Bernhard Sulzer
United States
Local time: 06:56
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | What's wrong is wrong | Aug 31, 2020 |
Thanks Jocelin. Here are a few more thoughts.
Jocelin Meunier wrote:
... The problem is that this minimum can vary greatly according to the languages involved, the speciality (medical, tourism, geology...), the task in itself (translation, interpretation, subtitling...) or even the country of residence of both client and translator. The latter here is problematic since you can't expect a translator living in France to accept, let's say, the rates an Indian company is able to propose, because the cost of living is simply not the same.
American as well as Indian companies are expecting people in Germany and elsewhere to accept jobs like the one I mentioned. It has nothing to do with where the company is located. And I am sure we can agree that $2 - $5 per hour isn't something that should be accepted anywhere. That goes for 2 - 4 Cents (US or EUR) per word as well.
Sure Proz.com can set a minimum, other portals have done it. Or, as I emphasized, stop allowing job posters to post their own rate or price ranges altogether. They have no business doing it.
Jocelin Meunier wrote:
This is an issue that goes beyond ProZ itself and, since they're here for themselves first, not translators, I don't think this is an effort we will see.
That's not what they're saying. They are saying there here for translators first. And they should. Paid memberships are still their bread and butter. And they're pulling a Pontius Pilate when they say they have nothing to do with the rates and are not getting involved. See my arguments earlier.
Jocelin Meunier wrote:
But I do believe that it is something that should be done on the industry as a whole, even just to tip the balance in the right direction. Problem is, I don't see this happening without an industry-wide (more like translator-wide) effort, because the only way clients and LSPs will accept is if everyone says "No, I won't do any task until we're all paid decently."
The duty here is Proz.com's. If you purport to be a professional site for translators, $2 - $5 an hour rate ranges dictated by clients should never be permitted here. Would you keep your store next to a sweatshop? I wouldn't, not just because it's hurting my own business but because what's going on in any sweatshop is simply wrong. I would let the authorities know.
[Edited at 2020-08-31 16:20 GMT]
| | |
|
|
|
Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 11:56
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Good analogy, IMO | Aug 31, 2020 |
Stuart Hoskins wrote:
horse-drawn carriages > automobiles > driverless cars
translation > post-editing machine translation > ?
Face it, the golden era of translation is behind us, we are the equivalent of uber drivers, a cog in the machine – the idea is to drive prices down and, ultimately, make us obsolete. At the moment, we're running to stand still.
Edward Potter wrote:
We may be on our way out in a few years. How much is a horse taxi driver worth? An ice deliveryman? A VCR repairman?
Horse taxis aka horse-drawn carriages are indeed few and far between nowadays. And many/most translators are trying to make a living along the same lines as Uber drivers, i.e. with difficulty. But horse-drawn carriages still exist and their drivers charge a lot of money to drive brides to weddings, tourists around city centres, and celebrities to Cannes Film Festival, etc. Likewise, the luxury end of the translation market still exists and will continue to exist. They aren't going to get MT to a standard where it can produce enticing marketing copy for luxury goods and services, for example. That sort of copy will continue to be translated from scratch by humans charging decent rates.
Also:
Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
American as well as Indian companies are expecting people in Germany and elsewhere to accept jobs like the one I mentioned. It has nothing to do with where the company is located. And I am sure we can agree that $2 - $5 per hour isn't something that should be accepted anywhere. That goes for 2 - 4 Cents (US or EUR) per word as well.
Sure Proz.com can set a minimum, other portals have done it. Or, as I emphasized, stop allowing job posters to post their own rate or price ranges altogether. They have no business doing it.
Actually it was ProZ.com members themselves who decided back in 2010 that, although we wanted to prevent outsourcers actually stating a rate and newbies seeing any reference to rates, we ourselves did want to have the option of knowing their budget. That wish was based on avoiding wasting time quoting for jobs where the gap was ridiculously wide. So you really need to stop blaming ProZ.com and start seeing it as the preferred solution of the vast body of your peers, at least back in 2010.
| | | | Bernhard Sulzer
United States
Local time: 06:56
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | $2 - $5 per hour - the vast majority of peers is not okay with that and that's the issue | Aug 31, 2020 |
Sheila Wilson wrote:
Actually it was ProZ.com members themselves who decided back in 2010 that, although we wanted to prevent outsourcers actually stating a rate and newbies seeing any reference to rates, we ourselves did want to have the option of knowing their budget. That wish was based on avoiding wasting time quoting for jobs where the gap was ridiculously wide. So you really need to stop blaming ProZ.com and start seeing it as the preferred solution of the vast body of your peers, at least back in 2010.
No, it was what Proz.com decided to institute. It has no teeth and pleases posters since they can still DEMAND their own price. I for one was never in favor of that. It's a very irresponsible way of letting something slide ... support for responsible conduct of business. Oh you don't have to see it if you don't want to and if you want to, that's okay. "Avoiding wasting time" by not looking at these rates has nothing to do with responsible action within our industry with regard to price dumping. The rate ranges are still being posted, if you look at them or not, if you believe personally it's just a waste of time to look at them or if you're absolutely opposed to them.
It's beside the point though. Those rate ranges are always visible to anyone who wants to see them - and there are plenty of people that don't know any better I'm sure. Point is the amounts stated in the vast majority of these rate and price ranges are completely ridiculous and insulting to any professional paying for membership on this site.
.
They should IMO not be permitted on a professional site at all. It's the equivalent of having sweatshops next to your own door front. As I said, that's unacceptable FMPOV, and I won't stand for it.
And I very much doubt the status quo is the preferred solution of the vast body of MY peers, not even BACK in 2010. But especially not in 2020 under Covid-19.
Translators first! is what Proz.com says. And they also say they have no intention to institute minimum rate ranges on the job board. And they won't consider any change like doing away with permitting posters to demand posting these outrageous rates. So there you go.
Don't worry, I won't be in the way here very much longer - most likely.
| | | | Bernhard Sulzer
United States
Local time: 06:56
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Can't support bidding for translation projects any longer | Sep 2, 2020 |
In 2015 I wrote:
https://www.proz.com/forum/money_matters/4309-bidding_should_not_be_based_on_price_staff_it_is_not.html
page 2
a) Do away with the job board. It doesn't matter if a rate or budget range is posted, to get these jobs you need to be in a special kind of category. I am not in that category.... See more In 2015 I wrote:
https://www.proz.com/forum/money_matters/4309-bidding_should_not_be_based_on_price_staff_it_is_not.html
page 2
a) Do away with the job board. It doesn't matter if a rate or budget range is posted, to get these jobs you need to be in a special kind of category. I am not in that category. Are there exceptions as far as job posts are concerned? Maybe. But when you want someone to bid, you tell them to go as low as you can.
b) Revamp the platform in a way that appeals to professionals. The current directory search doesn't yield anything much better for me than the job board (my experience).
In 2020, my suggestion is this:
You need a completely new concept that attracts high quality translators and high quality clients.
Unfortunately, I think it's not going to happen because it's not your mission. What you have works for a lot of often non-paying posters who get plenty out of it for very cheap.
So thanks for the things that are good, like forums and KudoZ. But you'll understand that remaining a paying member means supporting your whole enterprise, and at this point I won't be able to do that.
Earlier this year, I had inquired about a reduced membership price without access to the job board which wasn't offered but it no longer appeals to me. I need to distance myself.
A few opinions from colleagues:
2012
https://www.proz.com/forum/business_issues/217064-thats_it_i_quit_ya.html
It's just a joke. I do feel for those that have to grovel to these agencies to be able to pay a mortgage/feed the kids etc, but I'm damned sure I'm not going to lower myself. I could earn more cleaning cars outside my house.
I feel I just wasted several years of my life and an awful lot of money in training.
Pity - I quite enjoy translating.
2002! Yes.
https://www.proz.com/forum/money_matters/4309-bidding_should_not_be_based_on_price_staff_it_is_not.html
1. This bidding “process” in here is counter-productive and ill serves the needs and the collective futures of linguists. It should be done away with entirely and potential clients should be showered with the résumés of those translators or interpreters who have the experience and expertise to provide professional service based on the requirments of the job. Rates need not be the sole driving force between the client and the provider. By competing based on price and not based on qualifications we are playing into the hands of those who conspire to break the backs of freelance professionals.
2. Our lack of unity on pricing and this bidding system does so much harm that many colleagues are worse off now than they were just last year. The many additional economic quirks of our respective countries are contributing factors to be sure. Nevertheless, in the face of recessions, depressions and IMF concessions, linguists need to counter the economic downturn with a united front, not a crumbled free-for-all.
3. What happens when you bid? The price goes down. It NEVER goes up. Never! What linguists do is an art but we’re not at an art auction where bidding allows lilies and “gordas” to go for astronomical prices. Our system produces results that are diametrically opposed. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Pages in topic: [1 2] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Control of rates should always! reside in the hands of translators, not LSPs. | Anycount & Translation Office 3000 | Translation Office 3000
Translation Office 3000 is an advanced accounting tool for freelance translators and small agencies. TO3000 easily and seamlessly integrates with the business life of professional freelance translators.
More info » |
| | Trados Studio 2022 Freelance | The leading translation software used by over 270,000 translators.
Designed with your feedback in mind, Trados Studio 2022 delivers an unrivalled, powerful desktop
and cloud solution, empowering you to work in the most efficient and cost-effective way.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
