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overpayment scam
Thread poster: Mary C Ellis
Mary C Ellis
Mary C Ellis  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 14:58
Italian to English
Jun 10, 2020

I just fell for a scam involving a person who said she got my name from proz.com and contracted with me to do a 40-page translation. I did it and she said my fee was good, then said she had mistakenly mailed me a check that exceeded that amount that was meant for someone else. I got the cashiers check, deposited it, and followed her directions to send via Zelle the overpayment to a third party. Meanwhile, my bank placed the deposited check on a 10-day potential fraud hold. So, I am out $2,000 pl... See more
I just fell for a scam involving a person who said she got my name from proz.com and contracted with me to do a 40-page translation. I did it and she said my fee was good, then said she had mistakenly mailed me a check that exceeded that amount that was meant for someone else. I got the cashiers check, deposited it, and followed her directions to send via Zelle the overpayment to a third party. Meanwhile, my bank placed the deposited check on a 10-day potential fraud hold. So, I am out $2,000 plus a week's work. Names involved are "Ana de Queiroz," "Christine Gupton," "William Koehln," and "Deborah Ann Sieger." Beware.Collapse


Anastasia Kingsley Kinkusic
 
Anastasia Kingsley Kinkusic
Anastasia Kingsley Kinkusic  Identity Verified
Member (2011)
Croatian to English
+ ...
Almost burned myself Jun 10, 2020

Dr. Livingston (what a name, false of course) totally unexpectedly sent me $4500 on a Friday afternoon, a gross overpayment. I was warned by my bank manager to sit tight on the money who predicted that the original check would bounce. Just like you, the money was supposed to be forwarded to a 3rd party. It’s like the Bermuda Triangle, but what goes missing is your cash! Sure enough my bank manager was right, and the first check (to me) bounced. Dr. Livingston’s very excited messages “did y... See more
Dr. Livingston (what a name, false of course) totally unexpectedly sent me $4500 on a Friday afternoon, a gross overpayment. I was warned by my bank manager to sit tight on the money who predicted that the original check would bounce. Just like you, the money was supposed to be forwarded to a 3rd party. It’s like the Bermuda Triangle, but what goes missing is your cash! Sure enough my bank manager was right, and the first check (to me) bounced. Dr. Livingston’s very excited messages “did you send? Did you send?” were a duet of comedy and tragedy. Nope.

Let translators beware. I wrote them a scathing message, how can you jerks prey on honest, freelance linguists trying to survive and support their families in such economically unstable times. I suggest you do the same.
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Nikolay Novitskiy
 
Kevin Fulton
Kevin Fulton  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:58
German to English
Scamsters have no conscience Jun 10, 2020

Anastasia Kingsley Kinkusic wrote:

I wrote them a scathing message, how can you jerks prey on honest, freelance linguists trying to survive and support their families in such economically unstable times. I suggest you do the same.


Pointless to tell them off.
Some lessons are unfortunately learned the hard way,


Katarzyna Slowikova
Sheila Wilson
Philippe Etienne
Thomas T. Frost
Mervyn Henderson (X)
Dan Lucas
expressisverbis
 
Mervyn Henderson (X)
Mervyn Henderson (X)  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 21:58
Spanish to English
+ ...
Survive Jun 10, 2020

But they ARE trying to survive and support their families. Scammers are people too - naughty people, but people nevertheless. Don't blame the scammers if those they prey on are gullible enough to believe in a large-volume translation from someone barely coherent they've never heard of before, who doesn't quibble about price, qualifications, timelines or experience, and offers a cheque up front without being asked.

Red flags? Seriously? How many do there have to be? How many can you
... See more
But they ARE trying to survive and support their families. Scammers are people too - naughty people, but people nevertheless. Don't blame the scammers if those they prey on are gullible enough to believe in a large-volume translation from someone barely coherent they've never heard of before, who doesn't quibble about price, qualifications, timelines or experience, and offers a cheque up front without being asked.

Red flags? Seriously? How many do there have to be? How many can you handle? In this day and age, who even sends cheques anymore? I can't remember the last time I even saw one, let alone wrote one out.

Do nothing but wait for the worthless cheque to arrive, tear it up, do not engage in any further contact despite their inevitable request for the overpayment difference afterwards, get on with your life, and smile as you remember that the only person out of pocket here is the scammer, who's spent money on postage for squat.

[Edited at 2020-06-10 16:15 GMT]
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Sheila Wilson
Philippe Etienne
Dan Lucas
expressisverbis
Angie Garbarino
mughwI
Kevin Fulton
 
Philippe Etienne
Philippe Etienne  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 21:58
Member
English to French
Letting people know: already done Jun 10, 2020

My sympathies.

Was there anything different in your experience?
http://wiki.proz.com/wiki/index.php/Detecting_and_reacting_to_false_job_offers_and_other_scams#A_variant_that_targets_translators_and_interpreters

There are countless stories of this kind in the Sc
... See more
My sympathies.

Was there anything different in your experience?
http://wiki.proz.com/wiki/index.php/Detecting_and_reacting_to_false_job_offers_and_other_scams#A_variant_that_targets_translators_and_interpreters

There are countless stories of this kind in the Scams forum, it's as old as Phoenicians, but it looks like nobody listens.
Besides being targeted as a translator with the same tactics (which I was aware of), I was also approached while selling a couch on a second-hand site: the extra money was supposed to pay the pick-up company via Western Union!

It's too late and nobody listens, but there again: don't trust anybody about money matters when you can't verify their ID. Whether in the street or online.

Philippe
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Thomas T. Frost
Mervyn Henderson (X)
Sheila Wilson
expressisverbis
Angie Garbarino
Liviu-Lee Roth
Philip Lees
 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 20:58
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Oh my goodness! Jun 10, 2020

Mary C Ellis wrote:
I am out $2,000 plus a week's work.

That's terrible . I suppose it seems legitimate to receive a cheque in the US, but it can't be considered legitimate to refund such a crazy amount of money to a total stranger, surely? I mean, wouldn't it have been possible to ask for another cheque for the right amount, rather than depositing a cheque that you can see is for far too much?

Can I ask if you'd ever heard of the Scam Centre here and its notifications of new scams that you can sign up for? I'm really worried that a paying member for some years has been in a position of still not knowing about these things. Should ProZ.com be doing more to warn its members?


Mervyn Henderson (X)
Philippe Etienne
expressisverbis
Michele Fauble
Liviu-Lee Roth
Barbara Carrara
Philip Lees
 
Mervyn Henderson (X)
Mervyn Henderson (X)  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 21:58
Spanish to English
+ ...
@Sheila Jun 10, 2020

That last question of yours - too true. You probably remember I suggested as much on another recent thread. Perhaps less "Meet the Team" and more "Meet the Scammers"?

[Edited at 2020-06-10 16:38 GMT]


Thomas T. Frost
Iris Schmerda
Sheila Wilson
Michele Fauble
Liviu-Lee Roth
Barbara Carrara
Robert Rietvelt
 
Mary C Ellis
Mary C Ellis  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 14:58
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
naught people? Jun 10, 2020

To characterize criminals as "naughty people" who are just trying to get by in difficult times is one of the more egregious instances of victim-blaming I've ever seen. I accept that I was "gullible" and take responsibility for my considerable loss. My posting was intended simply to warn others to avoid making the same mistake. Adding insult to injury here seems less than generous or collegial.

Jessica Noyes
Nikolay Novitskiy
Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
Trudy Stull
 
Dan Lucas
Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:58
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Unfortunately, we've heard it so many times Jun 10, 2020

Mary C Ellis wrote:
My posting was intended simply to warn others to avoid making the same mistake.

I think people would have responded with more overt sympathy if these very forums were not already full of stories identical to yours. This scam is decades old. A simple Google for "check payment scam" would have saved you $2,000, plus the time spent on the job. The world is full of predators. Due diligence matters.

I was scammed once, as a gullible young man, by a cunning street vendor. It wasn't a pleasant experience. I felt angry, stupid, embarrassed, and infuriatingly powerless when I realised what had happened. I didn't expect (or get) sympathy but I did learn from my mistake. That's all you can do also.

Regards,
Dan


Thomas T. Frost
Philippe Etienne
expressisverbis
Platary (X)
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expressisverbis
expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 20:58
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Mary, Jun 10, 2020

one of the scammers you refer to ("Ana Queiroz") is also mentioned here:
https://www.proz.com/forum/scams/340208-research_project_on_agricultural_reforms_in_eu_translation_scam_marie_stephens-page3.html
(It is amazing, and I may be mistaken, but... when I open this Proz's page the watchword is "Sc
... See more
one of the scammers you refer to ("Ana Queiroz") is also mentioned here:
https://www.proz.com/forum/scams/340208-research_project_on_agricultural_reforms_in_eu_translation_scam_marie_stephens-page3.html
(It is amazing, and I may be mistaken, but... when I open this Proz's page the watchword is "Scam".)
This post is very recent. I am sorry for this terrible situation.
Please make your checks before engaging into something that you can regret later because only money matters (Ok, we cannot live without it; "money is not everything, but everything needs money").
Please be aware in the future! Be careful! Do not fall again into this trap.
I wish you the best of luck!
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Mervyn Henderson (X)
Mervyn Henderson (X)  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 21:58
Spanish to English
+ ...
@Mary C Jun 10, 2020

The use of "naughty" was clearly ironic. Insult? No, it just annoys me that someone with so many years of experience would fall for this. Egregious? Less than generous or collegial? Probably. You're definitely the generous one, though - if it had been me, I'd never have told a soul.

I do regret your loss. Now it won't happen to you again, so you can at least be glad of the learning curve.


 
Katarzyna Slowikova
Katarzyna Slowikova  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 21:58
English to Czech
+ ...
No title Jun 10, 2020

Mervyn Henderson wrote:

No, it just annoys me that someone with so many years of experience would fall for this.


It's imho not the translating experience but freelancing experience that counts here. And I mean really freelancing, where you hunt for jobs online at least time to time. I've met many experienced translators who have for years or decades been working in an employee-like relationship with one or two big clients (or being real employees) and had zero experience with the wilderness freelancers usually have to navigate in. It was characteristic that none of them have even heard of the overpayment scam or any other scams affecting translators. When this people lose their client(s)/decide to go freelance and are forced to look for new clients online, they're vulnerable just as if they were total newbies. That's also when many buy the Proz membership.
I think that could have also been Mary's story (am I right...?).
On the other hand, I believe (hope!) most of those I met would be smart enough to smell the fish when it comes in the email....
And I also think Proz could be doing MUCH more in this area but it's been said thousand times on this forum and probably elsewhere too, and nothing has changed so I'm not holding my breath this time.

@Mary C Ellis: I'm curious how did they manage to get so many names into this scam, that must have been quite elaborate synopsis... would you mind to share it...??

[Edited at 2020-06-10 18:02 GMT]

[Edited at 2020-06-10 18:02 GMT]


Liviu-Lee Roth
Angela B
Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
 
Mary C Ellis
Mary C Ellis  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 14:58
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
points taken Jun 10, 2020

The last poster is correct in assuming my work experience has been limited to a long-term, honest employer and a few, equally honest, freelance clients. I also admit that I have not studied the vast forum postings that would have alerted me to the dangers that lurk in the freelance world. Many thanks for all your constructive comments!

(The multiple names associated with this scam include the person who contracted the translation, the person whose address appeared on the check envel
... See more
The last poster is correct in assuming my work experience has been limited to a long-term, honest employer and a few, equally honest, freelance clients. I also admit that I have not studied the vast forum postings that would have alerted me to the dangers that lurk in the freelance world. Many thanks for all your constructive comments!

(The multiple names associated with this scam include the person who contracted the translation, the person whose address appeared on the check envelope and two people whose email addresses I was directed to send money to.)
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Liviu-Lee Roth
Dan Lucas
Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
 
Lincoln Hui
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Hong Kong
Local time: 04:58
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
Darwin Jun 11, 2020

And I also think Proz could be doing MUCH more in this area but it's been said thousand times on this forum and probably elsewhere too, and nothing has changed so I'm not holding my breath this time.

Let Darwin claim his own. How many big flashing neon signs do we really need? How much help does one need to not respond to "We are looking for a trustworthy representative in China!!" or to not download that attachment from "Unusual debit card activity detected" sent from afterschoolhustle.org?

The Carl Zeiss/Google Hangouts scam was not bad. This? It's your standard Craigslist scam, maybe missing the part where the scammer says they are an army veteran.

Some lessons are unfortunately learned the hard way,

And some people never learn. Just this week there was someone on the forums who was in the process of falling for their SECOND overpayment scam and initially refused to believe it.


Philip Lees
Liviu-Lee Roth
 
Mervyn Henderson (X)
Mervyn Henderson (X)  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 21:58
Spanish to English
+ ...
Your brain's still in gear, though Jun 11, 2020

I’ve worked for other people in-house too, and some dodgy people at that, but it didn’t mean I switched my brain off. All kinds of situations come up in life that have nothing to do with your work.

A few years ago, in a certain European country I’d never visited before, on day 1 I noticed we’d been charged for three wines and three snacks, when we’d only had two each. I commented, and they said Oh yes (no apology), and refunded. On day 2 I gave someone else a ten-euro not
... See more
I’ve worked for other people in-house too, and some dodgy people at that, but it didn’t mean I switched my brain off. All kinds of situations come up in life that have nothing to do with your work.

A few years ago, in a certain European country I’d never visited before, on day 1 I noticed we’d been charged for three wines and three snacks, when we’d only had two each. I commented, and they said Oh yes (no apology), and refunded. On day 2 I gave someone else a ten-euro note, and they gave me the change for five. I commented, and they said Oh yes (no apology), and refunded. On day 3 I deliberately went back to the first place just to see, and they tried to overcharge me yet again. As of day 3 I was checking absolutely everything, and almost every time they were trying it on (a bus ticket sold to a destination much farther down the line, change for ten euros from a fifty-euro note and a long etc.). It seemed that the entire country was on the make. Since I spoke English to them, they assumed I was British, and British means sterling pounds, and sterling means you have no idea of what a euro is. Learning curve.

But I’m tired of these translation scams. I’m getting out, and I know how to do it. I’ve been smitten, people, and I’m going to spend the rest of my life with the woman I love and who loves me too. Her name is Sophie Carmelia Amin Mama, which is a bit of a mouthful, so I call her “Scammie” for short, and I’m going to help her get out of that vile refugee camp in that vile third-world country, and just as soon as I can free her from a murderous atmosphere and the lascivious attentions of drug-crazed guards, along with her three children and her grandmother, and pay off their medical bills, they’re all going to come over here and we can live in "the eternal bliss forever" (her own words) off the fifty million dollars her uncle deposited in a bank shortly before he was killed in a plane crash in Nigeria along with her husband. It’s a miracle. I sent her my photo, and in her very next e-mail she told me she was in love and wanted to be mine more than anything else in the world. I look at the photo she sent me after that, and you’d swear she’s Keira Knightley’s twin sister. It’s 8.30 am, and here I am listening to Simply Red, “I’d give it all up for you”, tears streaming down my cheeks.

Wish me luck. A lot of luck.
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