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Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

Río de la Plata

English translation:

Río de la Plata

Added to glossary by Elizabeth Medina
Dec 20, 2009 14:31
14 yrs ago
6 viewers *
Spanish term

Río de la Plata

Spanish to English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature El Matadero de Esteban Echeverría
Hi Everyone,

I am of the opinion that Río de la Plata in the English rendering of this short story, ought to be translated as River Plate, as the river is already known as River Plate in many parts of the English-speaking world and in history texts on Argentina, dating back to the Spanish colonial period and the British invasion.

Would much appreciate your opinions and know-how on this point. TIA!

Elizabeth
Proposed translations (English)
5 +10 Río de la Plata
3 +5 Río de la Plata (River Plate)
5 +2 River Plate / (La) Plata River
5 Río de la Plata.... but might refer to "Uruguay and Argentina"
2 Silver River (Río de la Plata)

Discussion

Ana Cizmich Dec 21, 2009:
Since the author is from Argentina and with all due respect to the British I don't see why an old translation should be favored. I live in Montevideo and I always translate it as Río de la Plata. I'm visiting Montreal now and I'm looking at an old map in French and Rio de la Plata it is here too.
Jim Tucker (X) Dec 21, 2009:
Just note that the Río de la Plata is not a river ..though it bears that name in Sp; it is a broad estuary and the region that surrounds it.
Christine Walsh Dec 21, 2009:
I've only just noticed that you're translating Echeverría. Sorry, careless of me. In this case I agree with Rosa, Carol and you. In his time 'River Plate' would have been the normal use in English.
Carol Gullidge Dec 20, 2009:
agree with you Rosa, and a touch of exoticism I feel it should either be River Plate or Rio de la Plata (with accent of course), ie, either the EN rendering as perhaps used at the time, or left in the Spanish. One more thing would lead me towards the latter, which is that I presume that the characters are all Spanish speakers - albeit translated into EN. If, on top of that, the action takes place in a Spanish-speaking region, then I'd use the Spanish name to retain the exoticism. But if this is dialogue, and it's coming out of the mouth of an EN-speaking character, then I'd consider using the English name. Lots to think about!
Carol Gullidge Dec 20, 2009:
try Monica! Hi Elizabeth: you could do worse than to refer this to Monica Algazi, who lives there - practically on the estuary (with apologies to Monica, as I've lost the use of certain diacritics in the Internet!)
Rosa Paredes Dec 20, 2009:
@asker Elizabet: tengo un interés personal por la Historia, especialmente la de Latinamérica. Ultimamente he leído historiadores de habla inglesa y "River Plate" es el término usado. It is definitely NOT 'Silver River'; I am certain you only other option is to leave the original name in Spanish.
Christine Walsh Dec 20, 2009:
I'd also go for the original Spanish, but wouldn't rule out River Plate, depending on the context/period/target.
Carol Gullidge Dec 20, 2009:
@ David It's a bit awkward using both "The..." and "La" together. The idea is to use one or the other, so that the translated text still flows seamlessly. But perhaps that your "the" above was unintentional?
For the same reason, you wouldn't use both "Rio" and "River", as in Mariana's suggestion: "Río de la Plata River"
David Russi Dec 20, 2009:
La Plata River For several reasons, I think "the La Plata River" is the best option. Added: I was under the impression that this short story took place in colonial times, and I think if that were the case you could use "the La Plata" (with the English article) to impart the translation with some flavor of "antiquity". However, looking back at the original posting I see no evidence of this at all, and really the type of story and the setting in time and place would be the determining factors to decide how best to handle the name of this well known region.
Rosa Paredes Dec 20, 2009:
Agree with Carol, Paul and Jim
Carol Gullidge Dec 20, 2009:
short story that's true - I hadn't taken into account that it's a short story, and I agree with the last comments of both Jim and Paul
Paul García Dec 20, 2009:
I agree with Jim Tucker I agree with Jim Tucker. The reader should—at the very least— be able to handle the four word phrase now in common English usage: Río de la Plata.
Jim Tucker (X) Dec 20, 2009:
whichever you choose I strongly advise against glossing in a short story.
Carol Gullidge Dec 20, 2009:
As this text isn't about modern times, it wouldn't matter if you use an "antiquated" term, if indeed that is the case. In fact, it might even be preferable, depending on the register of the rest of the text
Carol Gullidge Dec 20, 2009:
translating names normally, I would never translate proper names (especially for tourism - which doesn't apply here). However, Rio de la Plata is well known, and has been for many centuries, in the English-speaking world as "River Plate" - and definitely not "Silver River". You could use either the English name or the Spanish name (whichever best suits the text or outsourcer's preferred style), glossing in brackets at the first mention, thereafter using either River Plate or Rio da la Plata - whichever you have decided on.
Jim Tucker (X) Dec 20, 2009:
agree with Leonardo -- except that no explanatory translation in parentheses is necessary. Just use the Spanish name. "River Plate" is generally restricted to BE anyway (hence you risk having a lot of readers with no idea what this is) and a bit antiquated at that.
Leonardo Lamarche Dec 20, 2009:
Elizabeth Leave it as Río de La Plata (the most you could do is to put a translation note:Silver River). Eso es lo que haría.

Proposed translations

+10
2 hrs
Selected

Río de la Plata

I agree wholeheartedly with Mr. Tucker. Only Brits call it River Plate, and that's antiquated even in the United Kingdom. I just looked at my (English) globe—Río de la Plata. Definitely not "River Plate."

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Note added at 3 hrs (2009-12-20 17:49:34 GMT)
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Para muchos de nosotros, "River Plate" se refiere al equipo de fútbol, eso, sí, primero—o, como se suele saber, segundo. ☺
Peer comment(s):
agree Carol Gullidge : I agree to a certain point, but feel that as this is set in "olden times", there might be a case for the more old-fashioned usage - whatever your globe says!
33 mins
And it's an old globe, fairly worthless now that so many countries have changed names and border... But thanks, Carol.
agree Jim Tucker (X)
58 mins
Thank you, Jim.
agree Mariana Solanet : exactamente!!!! Para mí, Río de la Plata River; desde cuándo plata se traduce como plate? En todo caso se puede poner el significado entre paréntesis, River of the Silver, que expresa su connotación histórica, River Plate es fútbol!
2 hrs
Gracias, Mariana—pero, nena, calmate! ☺
agree patinba : In texts by River Plate authors I would leave Rio de la Plata. Mariana, la respuesta a tu pregunta es "desde el año de ñaupa" o sea del siglo 12 por ahí :)
5 hrs
Gracias, patinba.
agree Christine Walsh : Puede usarse 'estuary' en vez de 'river'.
5 hrs
Gracias, Chriswa y Feliz Navidad.
agree JuliaKer : Recordando que no es sólo un río, sino, que el autor se refiere a una zona conformada por Argentina y Uruguay, con una cultura propia.
5 hrs
Gracias, Julia, y Feliz Navidad.
agree Silvia Killian Özler
10 hrs
Gracias, Silvia, y Feliz Navidad.
agree María Isabel Estévez (maisa)
14 hrs
Gracias, María, y Feliz Navidad.
agree Thayenga : Feliz Navidad. :)
15 hrs
Gracias, y feliz navidad.
agree Ana Cizmich : 100%
1 day 4 hrs
Gracias, Ana y feliz navidad.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I thought it best to go with this solution, seemed the most neutral, safe one! Thanks everyone, se pasaron como siempre."
30 mins

Silver River (Río de la Plata)

Just sharing what wikipedia has to say: "A modern translation of the Spanish Río de la Plata is "Silver River", referring not to color but to the riches of the fabled Sierra de la Plata thought to lie upstream".
See the part "Etymology" in the following link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Río_de_la_Plata
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+5
18 mins

Río de la Plata (River Plate)

I believe you should leave the original and add "River Plate" in parentheses.

[DOC] 'Civilization and Barbarism': - [ Traducir esta página ]Formato de archivo: Microsoft Word - Versión en HTML
Esteban Echeverría, who spent five years in Paris before returning to Buenos ... Also wrote El matadero ('The Slaughterhouse', 1838), a short satirical prose ... had its origins during the wars of independence in the River Plate area. ...
www.columbia.edu/itc/spanish/.../CivAndBarbPenguin .doc - Similares -

Amazon.com: El Matadero-La Cautiva (9788437606170): Echeverria ... - [ Traducir esta página ]This item: El Matadero-La Cautiva by Esteban Echeverría .... even calling them, without irony, the "horribly ugly proletarian classes of the River Plate". ...
www.amazon.com/...Matadero...Echeverria/.../8437606179



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Note added at 47 mins (2009-12-20 15:18:13 GMT)
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Río de la Plata
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
This page is about the South American estuary. For the river in Puerto Rico, see Rio de la Plata (Puerto Rico).



Río de la Plata estuary map and satellite viewThe Río de la Plata (Spanish: "River of Silver") – ** always rendered River Plate in British English and the Commonwealth **, and occasionally rendered [La] Plata River in other English-speaking countries – is the river formed by the combination of the Uruguay River and the Paraná River.

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Note added at 52 mins (2009-12-20 15:24:01 GMT)
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http://ar.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=2009060814492...
Alguien sabe por qué le pusieron "River Plate" y qué significa?
El origen de este nombre es porque en sus comienzos el futbol argentino predominantemente lo practicaban los ingleses, de echo fueron ellos los que trajeron las reglas de este deporte aqui en la argentina (no lo crearon).

Por eso hay cuadros que tienen nombres ingleses (Boca Juniors), pero otros sin embargo se llamaban Quilmes Athletic Club (QAC) y por una cuestion de segregacion los ingleses no permitieron que argentinos jugaran en Quilmes, por esta razon y en prueba de disconformidad al mal trato que recibieron decidieron fundar su propio cuadro que denominaron "Argentinos de Quilmes".

River Plate nacio en la isla maciel, podriamos decir que forma parte del barrio de La Boca.

Tambien se le llama a Boca "el club de la rivera". Rivera es en ingles River, River Plate es rivera del plata. Antes eran cuadros que representaban a la Boca, ambos, pero luego River se fue y se lo considero una traicion, en repudio a eso se los tildo de "gallinas".
Peer comment(s):
agree Carol Gullidge : this would be my no. 1 choice, and I'd simply use Rio de la Plata after the 1st instance
1 hr
Thank you so much Carol. Your approval supports my thinking on the matter as well. Happy holidays and saludos.
agree Mariana Solanet : Río de la Plata River y la traducción entre paréntesis. Una aclaración: rivera es riverside y a los de River se les dijo gallinas por salir segundos en un campeonato, no por mudarse a Núñez.
1 hr
Gracias Mariana por su apoyo y aclaración. Feliz Navidad un abrazo.
agree Rosa Paredes : Si, y de acuerdo con Carol.
3 hrs
Muchísimas gracias Rosa. Feliz Navidad y saludos.
agree twiginbeak : y Feliz Navidad.
10 hrs
Muchas gracias, Richard. Igualmente y un abrazo.
agree María Isabel Estévez (maisa) : y agrego a la acotación de Mariana, que los de River llevan ese apelativo desde el año 1966 cuando, después de ir perdiendo 0-2, el Peñarol de Uruguay logró el empate y finalmente ganó 4-0 en los alargues. (¡Qué tiempos aquélloos!)
15 hrs
Gracias María Isabel. Feliz Navidad y saludos.
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+2
53 mins

River Plate / (La) Plata River

These are the versions of the name of the estuary I know in English
Peer comment(s):
agree Natalia Pedrosa (X)
26 mins
agree Liliana Galiano : River Plate
4 hrs
neutral patinba : River Plate if the speaker/writer is English (not the case here). Not La Plata River, which I have never seen, despite living on its shores.
8 hrs
It is extremely common, at least in the US. Why would you see it living on its shores? You would mostly see it in Spanish, I imagene, then in British English, traditionally the stronger influence in Argentina and Uruguay. Saludos!
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2 hrs

Río de la Plata.... but might refer to "Uruguay and Argentina"

Realmente este "Río de la Plata" se refiere exclusivamente al nombre del río? Porque en mis libros de historia y novelas históricas que tuve que estudiar en la escuela -de hecho inclusive ahora- cuando se habla del "Río de la Plata" en realidad se hace referencia a los dos países a sus márgenes -obviamente Uruguay y Argentina- pero muy especialmente a la zona de la ribera entre Colonia y Montevideo, por parte de Uruguay y la ciudad de Buenos Aires y su conurbano, del lado argentino.
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