Poll: Do you apply discounts for repetitions? ناشر الموضوع: ProZ.com Staff
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This forum topic is for the discussion of the poll question "Do you apply discounts for repetitions?".
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| | | | Michael Harris 
ألمانيا
Local time: 06:29
عضو (2006)
ألماني إلى أنجليزي
Why is it called "discount"?
If there are 50% repetitions in a technical document with about 50k words, why should the customer pay the full price for clicking a button to go to the next translation?
I have no worries about the staging of the word price in a prepared document, irrelevant of the nature.
If I have to convert the document from a pdf, then I always do the document to the full word price, irrelevant if there are repetitions or not because I have to do ... See more Why is it called "discount"?
If there are 50% repetitions in a technical document with about 50k words, why should the customer pay the full price for clicking a button to go to the next translation?
I have no worries about the staging of the word price in a prepared document, irrelevant of the nature.
If I have to convert the document from a pdf, then I always do the document to the full word price, irrelevant if there are repetitions or not because I have to do the formatting, etc as well and that is not normally covered in my "word price" ▲ Collapse
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Yes - special price for repetitions by translating prepared files with CAT-tools
No - no discount by repetitions without using CAT-tools
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Allison Wright (X)
البرتغال
Local time: 05:29
Very rarely.
FWIW, I do not consider the following examples (imagine they are sub-headings in a document) to be "the same" in any way, because they require my intervention, and one has to check whether the source text irregularity is intentional, i.e. they require *more* work from me, despite their "simplicity":
- Projects:
- Projects
Projects:
Projects
- Project:
- Project
Project:
Project
The idea of "repetitions"... See more Very rarely.
FWIW, I do not consider the following examples (imagine they are sub-headings in a document) to be "the same" in any way, because they require my intervention, and one has to check whether the source text irregularity is intentional, i.e. they require *more* work from me, despite their "simplicity":
- Projects:
- Projects
Projects:
Projects
- Project:
- Project
Project:
Project
The idea of "repetitions" reinforces the idea that translation is a "word for word" or "phrase for phrase" process, something which goes against the grain entirely as far as I am concerned. Whatever happened to the idea of translating a "text in context"? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Helen Hagon
Local time: 05:29
عضو (2011)
روسي إلى أنجليزي
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I don't currently use translation software, so every word has to be processed by my brain. Maybe that is something I ought to investigate in the future... For technical translations and other documents where accuracy is more important than style, I can see the logic of always translating A as B or X as Y and so the repetition argument makes some sense. However, in other situations, such as marketing material, or literary translations, where style is more important than a literal translation, ... See more I don't currently use translation software, so every word has to be processed by my brain. Maybe that is something I ought to investigate in the future... For technical translations and other documents where accuracy is more important than style, I can see the logic of always translating A as B or X as Y and so the repetition argument makes some sense. However, in other situations, such as marketing material, or literary translations, where style is more important than a literal translation, there may be several different ways to translate a word depending on the context, so a repetition in the source text might not always mean a repetition in the target text. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I'm with Allison | Sep 28, 2012 |
Allison Wright wrote:
Very rarely.
The idea of "repetitions" reinforces the idea that translation is a "word for word" or "phrase for phrase" process, something which goes against the grain entirely as far as I am concerned. Whatever happened to the idea of translating a "text in context"?
I don't use CAT tools precisely because when I tried, I found that I was not being paid for words that changed their meaning entirely from once occurrence to the next. That wouldn't be the case with larger churnks that are repeated, but I rarely do that kind of translation.
| | | | neilmac
أسبانيا
Local time: 06:29
إسباني إلى أنجليزي
+ ...
Usually at my own discretion. It depends on the client. However, if an agency approaches me brandishing screeds of small print and strangulation conditions, I tend to pass on it...
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Allison Wright wrote:
Very rarely.
The idea of "repetitions" reinforces the idea that translation is a "word for word" or "phrase for phrase" process, something which goes against the grain entirely as far as I am concerned. Whatever happened to the idea of translating a "text in context"?
| | | | | Yes, whenever specific circumstances occur | Sep 28, 2012 |
I give repeated segments for free if the job involves over 5,000 words, and these repetitions are legitimate no-brainers.
My #1 specialty being HRD courseware, it is common there to have the very same phrase repeated:
- in the trainer/facilitator's guide
- in participant's workbooks
- in copies
... See more I give repeated segments for free if the job involves over 5,000 words, and these repetitions are legitimate no-brainers.
My #1 specialty being HRD courseware, it is common there to have the very same phrase repeated:
- in the trainer/facilitator's guide
- in participant's workbooks
- in copies of pages from the workbooks embedded in the trainer's guide
- in handouts, summary sheets, etc.
- in PowerPoint presentations
- in the TOCs of each one of these
- in program/chapter titles on each page
There is no context issue here. Hundreds of phrases MUST be repeated verbatim everywhere, so they match accurately.
I have also translated some parts-list-type materials where repeated segments were in the 60-70% range and, in spite of this policy, they were quite profitable, as each of them involved 10-20 thousand words.
However I don't give discounts on fuzzy matches, ever! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Thomas Pfann
المملكة المتحدة
Local time: 05:29
عضو (2006)
أنجليزي إلى ألماني
+ ...
| It's not a discount | Sep 28, 2012 |
Michael Harris wrote:
Why is it called "discount"?
If there are 50% repetitions in a technical document with about 50k words, why should the customer pay the full price for clicking a button to go to the next translation?
I have no worries about the staging of the word price in a prepared document, irrelevant of the nature.
If I have to convert the document from a pdf, then I always do the document to the full word price, irrelevant if there are repetitions or not because I have to do the formatting, etc as well and that is not normally covered in my "word price"
I absolutely agree with this.
In most cases I, too, charge less for repetitions (or high TM matches) but it is not a discount, it is a charge. It is two different tasks which are charged at different rates. The reason why I charge less for checking repetitions then I do for translating is because it takes less time and effort.
Of course, there are cases where it doesn't make sense to distinguish between „new text“ and „repeated text“, but in many cases it does make perfect sense.
If you translate software you might have dozens or even hundreds of instances of sentences such as "The following error occurred:" or "Click Save to save your changes." Those get translated once and I don't have to worry about all the other instances. And it's the same with user manuals and many technical texts. Repeated text doesn't need to be translated from scratch but merely needs to be checked in the context. Of course, I charge for that - but not as much as for translation.
And to clear up some myths about repetitions in translation:
- Repetitions are 100% identical strings. The strings "- Projects:", "Projects", "Project", "Project:" etc are no repetitions at all and not even a CAT tool would consider them to be repetitions.
- Repetitions are only repetitions if the complete sentence or string is repeated in full. It is not a repetition if a single term is repeated in different sentences. It's not about counting how often each word appears in a text, it is about how often whole sentences or strings are repeated.
| | | | Alison Sabedoria (X)
المملكة المتحدة
فرنسي إلى أنجليزي
+ ...
The price I quote is always based on the overall nature of the text (possibly including how repetitive it is) and my estimate of how long the job will take. Word count is only ever a startng point and I never enter into hair-splitting calculations based on word count, repetitions, percentage matches, etc.
In one project last year, the repetitions were often a major problem in themselves: copy/paste errors in the source text that needed to be spotted and corrected (no, that's not th... See more The price I quote is always based on the overall nature of the text (possibly including how repetitive it is) and my estimate of how long the job will take. Word count is only ever a startng point and I never enter into hair-splitting calculations based on word count, repetitions, percentage matches, etc.
In one project last year, the repetitions were often a major problem in themselves: copy/paste errors in the source text that needed to be spotted and corrected (no, that's not the model with the gold flecks; it appears to be... er...?). Sometimes it was only my own memory that enabled me to find or invent an appropriate replacement text. CAT was a mixed blessing: 100% match and 100% wrong!  ▲ Collapse
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| A repetition just to make sure | Sep 28, 2012 |
Thomas Pfann wrote:
And to clear up some myths about repetitions in translation:
- Repetitions are 100% identical strings. The strings "- Projects:", "Projects", "Project", "Project:" etc are no repetitions at all and not even a CAT tool would consider them to be repetitions.
- Repetitions are only repetitions if the complete sentence or string is repeated in full. It is not a repetition if a single term is repeated in different sentences. It's not about counting how often each word appears in a text, it is about how often whole sentences or strings are repeated.
I always charge less for repetitions, but I don't necessarily inform the customer. I always run an analysis to assess the level of reps: it gives me an idea of the time and effort needed. Less time needed, lower price.
Philippe
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Allison Wright wrote:
Very rarely.
FWIW, I do not consider the following examples (imagine they are sub-headings in a document) to be "the same" in any way, because they require my intervention, and one has to check whether the source text irregularity is intentional, i.e. they require *more* work from me, despite their "simplicity":
- Projects:
- Projects
Projects:
Projects
- Project:
- Project
Project:
Project
The idea of "repetitions" reinforces the idea that translation is a "word for word" or "phrase for phrase" process, something which goes against the grain entirely as far as I am concerned. Whatever happened to the idea of translating a "text in context"?
I couldn't agree more.
Besides, do you pay a doctor less because he uses special equipment that cost a lot of money but which makes his work twice as fast and accurate? Then why should we charge less for using a CAT tool that cost us some serious money, although not as much as the doctor's equipment!
[Edited at 2012-09-28 16:02 GMT]
| | | | Rolf Kern
سويسرا
Local time: 06:29
أنجليزي إلى ألماني
+ ...
احياء لذكرى
For repetitions of full paragraphs I give a discount of 50%.
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