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wherestip
wherestip  Identity Verified
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"翻译起来就更困难" Nov 29, 2013

... Oops. I see what you mean. I assume you're referring to this version of Philippians 3:12 causing even more confusion?


This is the version from the King James Bible(KJB) as could be seen in the following link ...

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Philippians-3-12/



Philippians 3:12

Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

- King James Version (1611)



The same link has other translations. Here's one that uses very plain English(Bible in Basic English). In my opinion the usage of the word "that" in the BBE version is similar to that of the KJB version ...





Not as if I had even now got the reward or been made complete: but I go on in the hope that I may come to the knowledge of that for which I was made the servant of Christ Jesus.

- Basic English Bible



I could be wrong (not being very good at grammatical analysis), but I think the word "that" (above in bold green italics) in this version of Philippians 3:12 from the "Basic English Bible" functions as a conjunctive that introduces a reason and purpose, such as I mentioned a couple of days ago.

An alternative, even more straightforward way of looking at the above usage, is that "that" has the meaning of "the thing" (instead of "the reason" or "the purpose") as defined in the following sense ...



http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/that

4 a : the one : the thing : the kind : something, anything (the truth of that which is true) (the senses are that whereby we experience the world) (what's that you say)



... Excuse me for repeating myself on both of these viewpoints.



Here's a couple of Notes from the same link. I highlighted what I thought "that" stood for in each instance respectively ...





Wesley's Notes for Philippians 3:12

3:12 Not that I have already attained - The prize. He here enters on a new set of metaphors, taken from a race. But observe how, in the utmost fervour, he retains his sobriety of spirit. Or am already perfected - There is a difference between one that is perfect, and one that is perfected. The one is fitted for the race, #Php 3:15|; the other, ready to receive the prize. But I pursue, if I may apprehend that - Perfect holiness, preparatory to glory. For, in order to which I was apprehended by Christ Jesus - Appearing to me in the way, #Acts 26:14|. The speaking conditionally both here and in the preceding verse, implies no uncertainty, but only the difficulty of attaining.





People's Bible Notes for Philippians 3:12

Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained. Had already obtained the great prize. It still requires effort. The prize is at the end of the race. Either were already perfect. He never claimed to have received such a state; nor does he intimate any where that such a state is ever reached on earth. But I follow after. Press on, as one who must push forward. If that I may apprehend. The idea is, I press on in the hope that I shall lay hold upon the prize. That for which also I am apprehended by Christ Jesus. He will seek to lay hold of that for which Christ laid hold of him at conversion, viz., his eternal salvation.






Notice the "prize" I highlighted in blue in the two Notes is the equivalent to "my goal" in the NIV version

Philippians 3:12-14
New International Version (NIV)

12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.







~*~*~*~*~*

p.s. One more version of translation that spells out what "that" stands for explicitly ...



I do not say that I have already won the race or have already reached perfection. But I am pressing on, striving to lay hold of the prize for which also Christ has laid hold of me.

- Weymouth Bible



Here's yet another version that I can't even read, nevertheless it kind of supports my opinion about "that" having the meaning of "the thing" ...


Not that now Y haue takun, or now am parfit; but Y sue, if in ony maner Y comprehende, in which thing also Y am comprehendid of Crist Jhesu.

- Wycliffe Bible




[Edited at 2013-11-30 12:28 GMT]


 
wherestip
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BBE Nov 29, 2013

What is the Bible in Basic English(BBE)?

http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-Basic-English-BBE.html


 
QHE
QHE
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translate the translation Nov 29, 2013

wherestip wrote: A Reference

IMHO, since the author was a theologian, she basically was paraphrasing this verse.


Given the fact that “Pressing on Toward the Goal’ is the subject of Philippians 3.12-21, and the author ( Lois E. Lebar) also referenced another quotation from Philippians at the end of the same passage(4. Keep motivation strong and pure,… ), I therefore agree with Steve that the sentence “should not Christians apprehend that for which they’ve been apprehended by the Lord of Life Himself?” exhibits a reflection of Philippians 3.12.

wherestip wrote: God's plan

Not at all. Scan through the whole sermon; he's basically saying what you and I were saying about how to interpret the 1st and 2nd apprehend, although not from a linguistic standpoint.


It seems to me that L E Lebar, just like Rev. Wilson, was partial to “apprehend” version of translation. As Steve mentioned above, I also tend to believe that "apprehend" in the sentence (under discussion) should hold comparable meanings as that quoted by Rev. Wilson in the sermon:


"... I have been apprehended of Christ, and now I want to apprehend Christ in glory!”




[Edited at 2013-11-30 00:32 GMT]


 
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