| Páxinas no tema: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Off topic: Game for a little competition? Persoa que publicou o fío: Denyce Seow
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Wenjer Leuschel (X) 
Taiwan
Local time: 11:32
English to Chinese
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Chinoise wrote:
Well, "Point 4)" arouses my same old question again: How will they rank--- just publish their opinions openly here or send their votes directly to the coordinator?
weiwei wrote:
4) ALL of you, including those who did not submit any translation, will rank the top three translations within a certain deadline.
Why not publish the opinions here? I believe it would be the right way to evaluate works publicly. The translators do not need to defend their way of translation, but the reviewers must provide their arguments to their comments. It is for the sake of fairness.
| | | | Denyce Seow
Singapore
Local time: 11:32
Chinese to English
INICIO DE TEMA | Public review | May 31, 2006 |
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
Why not publish the opinions here? I believe it would be the right way to evaluate works publicly. The translators do not need to defend their way of translation, but the reviewers must provide their arguments to their comments. It is for the sake of fairness.
I agree with Wenjer on this point. Translators do not really learn if all they see are No. 1, No. 2 and No. 3. Reviewers should be allowed to express their opinions, give suggestions for improvements or offer compliments. As I have mentioned, this really requires all participants to keep an open mind.
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
我也同樣可以捐出 4000 點 BrowniZ 和一年的會員費 $80
Oh wow.... the second contest will be named "Wenjer Leuschel Translation Award".
| | | | Chinoise
Local time: 23:32
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Again, "Great minds think alike ..." | May 31, 2006 |
weiwei wrote:
Hmm, I was thinking of using a literature piece. I'm sure many of us here do not get a lot of opportunities to translate literature. Would be fun and definitely a real challenge on our writing skills. Moreover, since all of us have our own specialisations, it would not be fair if we chose an IT or automotive text.
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
如果 Weiwei 想的是文學類的文本，我覺得英美現代短篇小說倒不錯，而且最好越近今日的短篇小說越好，也就是說還沒有中文翻譯的。我這兒倒有一堆每次旅行在機場隨手買的短篇小說，裡頭可以選出一些比較短些的出來試試。
至於獎勵，我覺得也應該，但為了繼續辦下去，不只 Betty 捐出的，我也同樣可以捐出 4000 點 BrowniZ 和一年的會員費 $80－－這倒不困難，我沒想到我本來一年只需要 4000 點 BrowniZ，但半年卻已積攢了超過四千點，所以捐出來獎勵參與這個活動的新生代翻譯人，倒很有意義，而只花 $80 就可以讀到好的小說翻譯，值得。
"That's really generous of you, too!" said Weiwei.
[Bearbeitet am 2006-05-31 20:39]
| | | | Denyce Seow
Singapore
Local time: 11:32
Chinese to English
INICIO DE TEMA | Another idea | May 31, 2006 |
Receiving negative feedback is never an easy thing for anyone. How about we just use positive feedback and encouragement in our contests? This means that reviewers are only required to provide feedback for their top three translations. Well, if these three tranlations can be ranked as top three, they should probably get more positive feedback than negative ones. If one of the major concerns is that things might get ugly when opinions are put up in public, I suggest that all votings are to be sen... See more Receiving negative feedback is never an easy thing for anyone. How about we just use positive feedback and encouragement in our contests? This means that reviewers are only required to provide feedback for their top three translations. Well, if these three tranlations can be ranked as top three, they should probably get more positive feedback than negative ones. If one of the major concerns is that things might get ugly when opinions are put up in public, I suggest that all votings are to be sent in to the coordinator with a short review. The coordinator will consolidate these reviews and publish them together with the results. Again, these reviews will not come with any names; nobody has to know who wrote which review. How does this sound?
[Edited at 2006-05-31 20:40]
[Edited at 2006-05-31 20:50] ▲ Collapse
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Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 11:32
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Sorry, I cannot agree with part of the idea. | May 31, 2006 |
weiwei wrote:
Receiving negative feedback is never an easy thing for anyone. How about we just use positive feedback and encouragement in our contests? This means that reviewers are only required to provide feedback for their top three translations. Well, if these three tranlations can be ranked as top three, they should probably get more positive feedback than negative ones. If one of the major concerns is that things might get ugly when opinions are put up in public, I suggest that all votings are to be sent in to the coordinator with a short review. The coordinator will consolidate these reviews and publish them together with the results. Again, these reviews will not come with any names; nobody has to know who wrote which review. How does this sound?
Weiwei, I am sorry, I cannot agree with part of your idea. It is very considerate of you to avoid bad taste, but my opinion is that everyone has to stand for his opinion.
The coordinator may consolidate the reviews and publish the comments concerning the works of the winners, but with the commentators' names. It has functioned with the Latinos. Why should it not funciton with us Chinese ethnics? A short review may contain positive and negative comments, but they must be with grounds and improvement suggestions. No bad taste of personal attack shall be tolerated and this has been already avoided by hiding the names of the contributors/submitters before the result is published.
Hiding the names of the commentators would provide unhappy souls an opportunity to vent their frustration on others. That would not be in accordance with our interest in the contest, which is suppose to encourage talents and to improve skills. Besides, should it happen that way, the coordinator would have too much a workload of screening and avoiding turning upset with those frustration vents.
我们无法假设人人都是君子，所以话还是说在前头的好。要批评别人的翻译就必须具名，而且要说明批评的理由和改善翻译的建议，即使别人的翻译有误解误译或语言韵律不和谐的情况，绝对不准许谩骂或用 "令人不敢恭维" 的不客气言词批评，而是必须提出 "令人可以恭维" 的修改建议，这样大家才有学习的机会。
| | | | Denyce Seow
Singapore
Local time: 11:32
Chinese to English
INICIO DE TEMA | Announce names of the reviewers | May 31, 2006 |
Wenjer, I'm glad that you are contributing your thoughts here. That is what I need to fine-tune the process. Let me get to a few of your comments:
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
It has functioned with the Latinos. Why should it not funciton with us Chinese ethnics?
Ummm..... I'm sure you know the differences between these two cultures. Latinos are very straight forward. They say what they think, and very often people do not really bear grudges. Sad to say... this is not really the case in our Chinese culture. Chinese tend to be a little bit more sensitive. Remember the "mian zi" thing?
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
No bad taste of personal attack shall be tolerated and this has been already avoided by hiding the names of the contributors/submitters before the result is published.
That is true...
Wenjer Leuschel wrote:
Hiding the names of the commentators would provide unhappy souls an opportunity to vent their frustration on others.
But on the other hand, announcing the names of the reviewers would discourage reviewers from giving their heartfelt comments for fear of retaliation.
Overall, your comments are definitely valid. At least, you have swung me into neutral. Let's see what the others think about announcing the names of the reviewers.
Denyce
[Edited at 2006-06-01 03:51]
| | | | pkchan
United States
Local time: 22:32
Membro (2006)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Let the Chips Fall | Jun 1, 2006 |
Base on Weiwei's rules, let's have the first trial round and fine tune those rules on the second round. Here is my offer for prize: A lobster dinner for two at a Boston Chinatown restaurant, air tickets and hotel accommodations NOT included, or US $50.00 (Fifty US Dollars) Cash Check. Good Luck and Have Fun!
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If this competition is realized in the end, it's second example that we are united to do something for the benefits of all Chinese translators around the world.
However, I suggest no monetary award be granted to winners. I say this out of several considerations, one of which is that after two or three rounds of competitions, when the money or BrowniZ is running thin, further participants may get discouraged to take part. Once you set something as reward, you would have to provide a... See more If this competition is realized in the end, it's second example that we are united to do something for the benefits of all Chinese translators around the world.
However, I suggest no monetary award be granted to winners. I say this out of several considerations, one of which is that after two or three rounds of competitions, when the money or BrowniZ is running thin, further participants may get discouraged to take part. Once you set something as reward, you would have to provide as long as people qualify.
Furthermore, it's hard to say whose translation is really absolutely better than another. And what about even if the winner (No. 1) doesn't translate well enough? If we want to make it something, we have to find a means to support it and let it last. My suggestion:
I (or anybody) can donate a domain name and web space for the event if everything runs smoothly. Then let's give it a formal name and work out regulations. All the best translations (No. 1,2,3, etc) will be posted with translators' names and website links on the site as a reward... Possibly we are on the way to make it another prestigeous translators' competition in the world.
I just thought about this and there are still lots of things to consider. But if you think this idea is useful, please contribute your ideas to make it happen.
Jianjun
[Edited at 2006-06-01 02:19]
[Edited at 2006-06-01 08:42] ▲ Collapse
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But on the other hand, announcing the names of the reviewers would discourage reviewers from giving their heartfelt comments for fear of retaliation.
No fear. The decision is made by the board of reviewers (name list).
We can sort out a list of people who are willing to donate money and time to this project and use this money and voluntary work to make it. There is no way that only proz.com can set up a Wikiwords.org. We can too!
| | | | Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 11:32
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Ｌosing the Fear of Being Scrutinized | Jun 1, 2006 |
weiwei wrote:
Ummm..... I'm sure you know the differences between these two cultures. Latinos are very straight forward. They say what they think, and very often people do not really bear grudges. Sad to say... this is not really the case in our Chinese culture. Chinese tend to be a little bit more sensitive. Remember the "mian zi" thing?
You see, Weiwei, I would have said, "To hell with Mianzi!" But that's not the right way to pack the horns of a buck.
As the Venezuelan translator Otilla Acosta writes, "到目前为止，我发现 (KudoZ) 最重要的好处之一，就是它让人有机会失去面对其他专业翻译人检视的恐惧。其他的专业翻译人，可以针对你的回答或解说，表示同意或不同意，而且他们不会犹豫改正你在翻译上的任何省略、疏忽或错误。曝露在这样的情境下，随着时间的推移，会让人产生自信和更加完备回答的欲望，这显然会导致更为优良的专业素质。"
It is the obligation of a reviewer to provide sound criticism and suggestions for improvement. That is, he/she shall point out, in a politically correct tone, the omissions, negligence or errors in a translation and offer his/her suggestions for betterment. By this way, it helps us all to learn how to improve our professional quality.
This is the only way to lose the fear of being scrutinized by peers. Nobody is perfect, after all. Even the best translation may contain some slight deviations from the orignal text which can be pointed out and improved. Everyone can make a mistake. There is no shame at all. What really counts for us is to learn from each other.
weiwei wrote:
But on the other hand, announcing the names of the reviewers would discourage reviewers from giving their heartfelt comments for fear of retaliation.
We have already avoided the fear of retaliation by concealing the submitters' names till the result comes. The comments of the reviewers are subject to scrutinization of the peers as well. So, the corrections/improvements are only good for everybody, including the submitters. Why should a reviewer refrain from giving his/her heartfelt comments for fear of retaliation?
By the way, there shouldn't be a selected board of reviewers, as Jianjun suggested. Every one of us, peers, is entitle to review the contributions and give his/her comments in accordance with the rule of providing sound suggestions and being void of bad taste. This might be the best way to gradually turn the "mianzi-culture" into a civilized way of dealing with each other and thus having no fear of being scrutinized.
[Edited at 2006-06-01 21:46]
| | | | Zhoudan
Local time: 11:32
English to Chinese
+ ...
| No reviewer, please! | Jun 1, 2006 |
I don't think we need a particular reviewer or a bench of judges to rate the top 3. Let's do it this way:
1. Post an English text.
2. Participators submit their translations to the coordinator.
3. The coordinator numbers and posts the translations he has received. No names. Only numbers will be used to identify the works.
4. Public review. Anyone interested in the review may rate the translations. The one receiving the most points or votes wil... See more I don't think we need a particular reviewer or a bench of judges to rate the top 3. Let's do it this way:
1. Post an English text.
2. Participators submit their translations to the coordinator.
3. The coordinator numbers and posts the translations he has received. No names. Only numbers will be used to identify the works.
4. Public review. Anyone interested in the review may rate the translations. The one receiving the most points or votes will win.
但有一点，为了防止作弊，投票者必须在proz.com建立了“象样”的profile，他的投票才能算数，但不必考虑其权威性。我们可以规定每位投票者可以投1-3票，投票时不必排出先后。最后根据得票多少排出前三名。我们每个人，无论是否参赛，都可以投票。愿意提出修改意见的，也可以提。不愿意也不勉强。
比赛的宗旨应该首先是好玩，然后才是学习。如果弄个权威的评审团，就没意思了。而且评委要付出很多时间精力，难免成为一个负担。我记得两年前，proz的文学论坛举办过一次俳句比赛，他们连coordinator也不设，愿意参加的就直接post在那里，到了截止时间，就让大家在那里投票，也是公开的，最后选出获奖者，他们还搞了颁奖晚会，获奖者上了时代周刊封面（当然只是“做”了一个封面:D），气氛非常轻松愉快。但愿我们也能做到那样。
选题：不如来一首诗！很可能是PKChan一举拿下呢！:-D ▲ Collapse
| | | | chance (X)
French to Chinese
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| 我觉得建军关于专设网站的建议挺有意义 | Jun 1, 2006 |
可以整理保留较好的译作供大家欣赏和学习，也可以了解其他同僚的建议和评论。
其实在论坛里以前已经有过不少好的翻译讨论，但是较零碎，所以渐渐就找不到了，实在可惜！如果有个专门的网站，就可以分类整理长期保留，并易于查找了。
此外，我提名赛前荣誉获奖者：pkchan
大家还记得他的“重逢”吗？
http://www.proz.com/topic/43775
Jianjun Zhang wrote:
I (or anybody) can donate a domain name and web space for the event if everything runs smoothly. Then let's give it a formal name and work out regulations. All the best translations (No. 1,2,3, etc) will be posted with translators' names and website links on the site as a reward... Possibly we are on the way to make it another prestigeous translators' competition in the world.
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pkchan
United States
Local time: 22:32
Membro (2006)
English to Chinese
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| No Money Involved? | Jun 1, 2006 |
I will buy something nice in the value of US$50.00 and mail it to the winner. Yes, I should not offer any cash for prize.
| | | | Han Li
China
Local time: 11:32
English to Chinese
+ ...
| 大家同意在一些比较好的帖子旁出现“收藏此帖”的快捷方式吗？ | Jun 1, 2006 |
我以前在Proz forum中曾发帖，要求增加这个功能，即在看到比较好的帖子时，点击这个类似的快捷方式，然后这个帖子就会像IE的收藏夹一样，把一些帖子收藏，这样每次上proz时就可以直接通过自己的profile找到那些自己喜欢的帖子。可是那个forum的管理员没有理会我的建议。
| | | | Chinoise
Local time: 23:32
English to Chinese
+ ...
要举办颁奖晚会？听起来激动人心......
你和PK一定要参赛！
Zhoudan wrote:
到了截止时间，就让大家在那里投票，也是公开的，最后选出获奖者，他们还搞了颁奖晚会，获奖者上了时代周刊封面（当然只是“做”了一个封面:D），气氛非常轻松愉快。但愿我们也能做到那样。
选题：不如来一首诗！很可能是PKChan一举拿下呢！:-D
[Edited at 2006-06-01 17:11]
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