May 21, 2002 18:10
21 yrs ago
Spanish term
Mexico
The right words in the right place.
Native in: English (Variants: US, Canadian) 
Works in: Spanish to English, English
phrase "que la compone sólo al Estado"
Spanish to English
Art/Literary
This is part of a political science artile about the definition of sociedad civil (civil society). The whole sentence is:
"Este concepto amplio de sociedad civil deja fuera del complejo institucional y cultural que la compone sólo al Estado."
I'm confused by the last part of this sentence; I don't see how it should be parsed. In "la compone sólo al Estado", what does the "la" refer to-- must be civil society, it's the only feminine noun in the first part of the sentence...? What is being composed of something, and what is the element composing it?
"Este concepto amplio de sociedad civil deja fuera del complejo institucional y cultural que la compone sólo al Estado."
I'm confused by the last part of this sentence; I don't see how it should be parsed. In "la compone sólo al Estado", what does the "la" refer to-- must be civil society, it's the only feminine noun in the first part of the sentence...? What is being composed of something, and what is the element composing it?
Proposed translations
(English)
| 5 +4 | correcciones al español |
Atenea Acevedo (X)
|
| 5 +1 | that comprises it |
Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
|
| 4 +1 | This extensive concept of a Civil Society |
RSI EN-ES (AA)
|
| 4 | Chequea redacción |
Gabriel Aramburo Siegert
|
| 4 | Which compose only at the State |
Patricia Alvarez
|
| 3 | that only the State can provide it (or provide for it) |
BJD
|
Proposed translations
+4
38 mins
Selected
correcciones al español
La correcta redacción en español sería:
Este amplio concepto de sociedad civil, formado por un complejo institucional y cultural, sólo excluye al Estado.
Ya los otros colegas brindaron atinadas traducciones, esto es sólo una nota español>español, espero que te sea útil.
Saludos...
Este amplio concepto de sociedad civil, formado por un complejo institucional y cultural, sólo excluye al Estado.
Ya los otros colegas brindaron atinadas traducciones, esto es sólo una nota español>español, espero que te sea útil.
Saludos...
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
RSI EN-ES (AA)
: Niceeeee....! But that would be too easy...
4 mins
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Right!
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| agree |
Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X)
: is deja fuera Spanglish or OK?
30 mins
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Hola, Jane. "Deja fuera" sería una traducción literal, innecesaria porque hay verbos en español para expresar esa idea. ¡Saludos!
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| agree |
Martin Moore
: I'd go for this one and/or complain to your author
1 day 3 hrs
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Thanks, Martin
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| agree |
Gabriel Aramburo Siegert
1 day 22 hrs
|
2 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks to everyone who gave my sentence some thought. Special moral kudoZ also go to Rick, whose comment on "objects placed a mile later" was the key that unlocked the structure of the sentence for me and helped me to understand why it says what it does. My final version reads:
"This broad concept of civil society omits only government from the institutional and cultural complex which comprises it." Not nice, I know, but at least I understand what it says, and I hope the readers will be able to, too. Unfortunately consulting the author wasn't an option, as he wasn't my client; the journal publishing his paper was. This is an on-line journal, and if anyone is interested in seeing the paper in both English and Spanish, let me know and I'll drop you a line when it's uploaded, probably in a few weeks. "
9 mins
that only the State can provide it (or provide for it)
The "del" is a problem for me. It would make much more sense if it were "deja fuera el complejo institucional...."
This is how I would translate the sentence then: This ample (broad) concept of civil society leaves out the institutional and cultural complexity that only the State can provide it.
This is how I would translate the sentence then: This ample (broad) concept of civil society leaves out the institutional and cultural complexity that only the State can provide it.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
RSI EN-ES (AA)
: Not quite, I don't think.
9 mins
|
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agreed, now that I see that it's "deja fuera al Estado"
|
+1
12 mins
RSI EN-ES (AA)
Other
Other
Native in Spanish
&
English
Other
Rem tene, verba sequentur
Native in: Spanish 
, English
Works in: English to Spanish, Spanish to English, Italian to English
Related KudoZ points
:
221
This extensive concept of a Civil Society
only excludes the State from the institutional and cultural complex that it is composed of.
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Note added at 2002-05-21 18:26:16 (GMT)
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ID EST:
Civil Society is an extensive concept made up of an institutional and cultural complex, in which only the State does not get included.
Crappy, convoluted, baroque, archaic writing, as usual.
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Note added at 2002-05-21 18:26:56 (GMT)
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Sorry, Jane, gramatically maybe, real world, IMHO, it sucks.
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Note added at 2002-05-21 18:32:48 (GMT)
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With a good gramatical hammer, there\'s gotta be several tighter versions.
I hate objects placed a mile later, makes you lose your train of thought, at least mine.:)
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Note added at 2002-05-21 18:26:16 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
ID EST:
Civil Society is an extensive concept made up of an institutional and cultural complex, in which only the State does not get included.
Crappy, convoluted, baroque, archaic writing, as usual.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-05-21 18:26:56 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Sorry, Jane, gramatically maybe, real world, IMHO, it sucks.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-05-21 18:32:48 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
With a good gramatical hammer, there\'s gotta be several tighter versions.
I hate objects placed a mile later, makes you lose your train of thought, at least mine.:)
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Atenea Acevedo (X)
: Hola, Rick
26 mins
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Hola y gracias.
|
+1
13 mins
that comprises it
transaltion: This broad concept of civil society only omits the State from the institutional and cultural complex [structure]that comprises it.
The direct object was confusing perhaps to you because it was at the end. This is actually very good Spanish.
deja fuera = to omit
la=LA sociedad civil
The direct object was confusing perhaps to you because it was at the end. This is actually very good Spanish.
deja fuera = to omit
la=LA sociedad civil
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Atenea Acevedo (X)
: Your interpretation is right, Jane, but this is not good Spanish phrasing at all!
26 mins
|
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really? I was convinced that it was...
|
22 mins
Gabriel Aramburo Siegert
Native in Spanish
Ready Comprehensive 30 year experience
Native in: Spanish
Works in: English to Spanish, Spanish, Spanish to English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
552
Chequea redacción
Hola GoodWorks. A mí me parece horriblemente redactado el español. Incluso sospecho que hay errores de typing. Yo no me atrevería a conceptuar sin consultar mejor la fuente. Suerte
1 day 1 hr
Which compose only at the State
I hope this can help you
Thank you
Thank you
Discussion