Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
le jeu absolu et sombre d’un spectacle
English translation:
the pure, sombre performance of a spectacle
Added to glossary by
Helen Shiner
Jun 30, 2008 09:16
15 yrs ago
French term
United States
Corporate Finance and Communications
Native in: English (Variants: US, UK) 
Works in: French to English
le jeu absolu et sombre d’un spectacle
French to English
Art/Literary
Poetry & Literature
In reference to Antonin Artaud's 1933 lecture/performance at the Sorbonne on "Le théâtre et la peste":
Artaud y développe « le jeu absolu et sombre d’un spectacle », qui « dans le théâtre comme dans la peste [a] quelque chose à la fois de victorieux et de vengeur ».
I found the quote elsewhere as "tirer le jeu absolu..." which naturally makes more sense, but the above is the text for translation, and without "tirer" I'm not sure what to do with "jeu"
Your creative input is welcome! MTIA
Artaud y développe « le jeu absolu et sombre d’un spectacle », qui « dans le théâtre comme dans la peste [a] quelque chose à la fois de victorieux et de vengeur ».
I found the quote elsewhere as "tirer le jeu absolu..." which naturally makes more sense, but the above is the text for translation, and without "tirer" I'm not sure what to do with "jeu"
Your creative input is welcome! MTIA
Proposed translations
(English)
Change log
Jul 14, 2008 07:58: Helen Shiner Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+2
1 hr
Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Specializes in field
United Kingdom
Arts/Academic translator - Art historian
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
72
Selected
the pure, sombre performance of a spectacle
Think you have to keep spectacle since it is a philosophical category.
Otherwise just a stab.
Otherwise just a stab.
Note from asker:
| Thanks Helen - the site beat me to it, but your answer was most helpful. I did not go with your exact phrasing, but I appreciated the note on "spectacle" which I, too, felt was necessary here. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
matmcv (X)
: It may be just a stab, but it's my favourite stab.
5 hrs
|
| agree |
lundy
: mine too, but I wonder if you couldn't keep "absolute"?
8 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
2 mins
cjohnstone
France
France
Native in French
&
English
Works in field
France
Experience and feel
Native in: French 
, English (Variant: British)
Works in: English to French, French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
12
pourquoi pas juste play???
une idée
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Loperhet (X)
: How about 'The deadly serious nature of performance'
28 mins
|
2 hrs
sombrous and uncompromising theatricality
NB : spectacle is most-times a faux ami.
2 hrs
Katarina Peters
Canada
Canada
Native in English
Specializes in field
Canada
Accuracy and A1 presentation
Native in: Hungarian , English (Variant: US)
Works in: English to Portuguese, Portuguese to English, Hungarian to English, and 13 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
14
the obscure finality of a performance
my suggestion
2 hrs
the somber and absolute action of a spectacle
I can't say if this is the best translation, but this is the published translation of this phrase, which comes from Artaud's "The Theater and its Double", in Mary C. Richard's translation of the work, p. 23. The second phrase is "In the theater as in the plague there is something both victorious and vengeful." (p. 27)
You can search inside the book at http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0802150306/ref=sib_dp_ptu#
You can search inside the book at http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0802150306/ref=sib_dp_ptu#
Note from asker:
| Thank you for locating a published translation! I was unsuccessful in my own attempts. I'm not sure I agree with this interpretation either, but it's always helpful to see what others have done. Cheers! |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Emma Paulay
: Yes, it has to be 'spectacle' really, because performance or anything else to do with theatre can't apply to 'la peste'. I think maybe 'nature' or 'workings' or 'expression' instead of 'action' though...
4 hrs
|
1 day 1 hr
the uncompromising acting out of a dark spectacle
"jeu" in the sense of acting or acting out and "absolu" in the sense of uncompromising - to hint at the ideas of "victorieux" and "vengeur"
2 days 21 hrs
a spectacle which plays itself out in sombre and absolute terms
Try as I might, I couldn't think of a good English noun equivalent for 'jeu' here, so I wondered if translating it as a verb might work.
To me, the meaning of 'jeu' here is along the lines of Emma's suggestions of 'nature' or 'workings', or perhaps the 'action' of the published translation. I'm not persuaded that it carries the meaning of 'performance' in this context.
A passive rendering is another possible variant: 'a spectacle which is played out in sombre and absolute terms'.
Good luck!
To me, the meaning of 'jeu' here is along the lines of Emma's suggestions of 'nature' or 'workings', or perhaps the 'action' of the published translation. I'm not persuaded that it carries the meaning of 'performance' in this context.
A passive rendering is another possible variant: 'a spectacle which is played out in sombre and absolute terms'.
Good luck!
Discussion
Interesting subject - an necessarily difficult!
A works on the theme of the "theatrically sombre (dark) and absolute (final)." doesn't have the "victorieux et (...) vengeur" elements, but seems a fair shot.
I'll come back to you - I must work first.