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A I
Feb 3, 2010 21:17
14 yrs ago
Italian term

in corrispondenza dell'inizio

Italian to English Art/Literary Archaeology necropolis
In epoca tardo-repubblicano o augustea, infatti si datano la piramide che sorgeva in corrispondenza dell'inizio di via della Conciliazione e la....
Proposed translations (English)
3 +1 where (via della Conciliazione) begins
4 -1 at the beginning of

Discussion

Stefano Costa (X) Feb 4, 2010:
The wording is perfectly good Italian I agree with Jim. It isn't fancy talk. I normally agree with Tom's dislike for Italian fancy language (esp. in Italian architecture and urban planning) but in this case it isn't fancy talk. One could argue that adding "dell'odierna" could have made things even clearer, but it isn't strictly necessary.
I'd go with Simon's "which was built at what is now the beginning of Via della Conciliazione".
(I'd keep "beginning" instead of "end", because it sticks to the orginal).
Jim Tucker (X) Feb 3, 2010:
Vincent, note that you say you agree with Tom -- and then propose Simon's version!

Also, the Late Republic was contiguous with the Augustan period. I can't see any mess being made of the chronology.
Vincent Lemma Feb 3, 2010:
I must agree with Tom, reason why I withdrew my initial reply. I think tha author in making a mess of chronology and archeology. Could go with "at the start of what today is", seems the soundest thing to me.
Jim Tucker (X) Feb 3, 2010:
This wording is perfectly good Italian Tom Compare for example: http://209.85.135.132/search?q=cache:Qz6y8lHcMD0J:it.wikiped...

Nel '400 sorgeva, in corrispondenza dell'attuale centro abitato....
or

Una breve sezione è dedicata a un piccolo abitato che, almeno dalla prima età del ferro, sorgeva in corrispondenza dell'area alta della città,

http://www.romaepiu.it/index.php/Musei-Archeologici/Museo-Ar...

(In this second example it is clear that the city did not exist at the time -- and that the author feels no need to add "attuale")

1500 other ghits for the phrase in quotes.
Tom in London Feb 3, 2010:
I'd say I'd say the Italian original is not well worded. And so the translation, to be faiithful, should retain the precise ill-wordedness of the original. Who knows what the author really means to say? S/he is NOT saying that the pyramid stood at the beginning of what is today VIa della COnciliazione. S/he is saying that it stood at the beginning of VIa della Conciliazione. Which as we know, is nonsense because Via della Conciliazione was built in the 1930s. But that's what the writer is saying. We may not like it, we may not agree with it, that that, precisely, is what the translator must translate. Not "improve" on it.
Simon Turner Feb 3, 2010:
Tom: so you're saying it really was built at the beginning of Via della Conciliazione? Well, maybe, but I wouldn't be too sure. Vincent: would you say that Marble Arch is "at the onset of" Oxford Street?
Jim Tucker (X) Feb 3, 2010:
Simon is exactly right: "in corrispondenza di" because the v.d. Conciliazione is a modern street by historical standards. His solution is fine: "at what is now the beginning/end of the Via della Conciliazione" or some variant of this (I think English more naturally likes "end" here).
Tom in London Feb 3, 2010:
No. Se volevano dire quello avrebbero detto "all'inizio dell'odierna Via della Conciliazione" o qualcosa del genere.....
Simon Turner Feb 3, 2010:
No, Tom, I think you're being a bit harsh on the author: it is "in corrispondenza dell'inizio" and not "all'inizio" simply because Via della Conciliazione wasn't there when the pyramid was built. What it's saying is more something like "which was built at what is now the beginning of Via della Conciliazione".

Proposed translations

+1
9 hrs
Selected

where (via della Conciliazione) begins

To make things easy and perfectly understandable.:)

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Note added at 9 ore (2010-02-04 07:09:56 GMT)
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As Via della Conc. is obviously the new one, and didn't exist at that time.

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Note added at 9 ore (2010-02-04 07:11:15 GMT)
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I think without adding "now" because it's obvious.

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Note added at 5 giorni (2010-02-09 17:09:18 GMT) Post-grading
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Buon lavoro. :)
Peer comment(s):
agree Lorraine Buckley (X)
2 hrs
Merci/Grazie/Thanks. :)
neutral Jim Tucker (X) : It's not "the new one" because there was no old one: this did not exist as a street in the ancient world. There has to be something like "at what is now the beginning of".... // I see.
5 hrs
Sorry you misunderstood, I meant to say exactly so. Via della Conc. is a "new one" , it didn't exist in the past, I wrongly wrote "the" instead of "a" in my explanation, but this what I meant, and I agrre with your suggestion anyway! :)
Something went wrong...
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
-1
13 mins

at the beginning of

it's just fancy talk. Potevano dire "all'inizio". Sarebbe stata la stessa cosa. Ma no.....
Peer comment(s):
disagree Jim Tucker (X) : This misses a crucial point. This is a modern street that did not exist when the pyramid was built -- not even as a Roman street. Please see discussion above.
51 mins
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