This question was closed without grading. Reason: Other
Jan 4, 2017 16:42
7 yrs ago
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English term
must have a completed hire
English to French
Other
Human Resources
Bonjour à tous,
Il s'agit ici de la traduction d'un logiciel RH en Suède/Norvège :
"In this process you can add an additional job for an existing worker.
The worker must have a completed hire in order to complete this process.
An open job requisition is a prerequisite for completing this process."
"Le collaborateur doit avoir terminé son processus (sa procédure pour éviter la répétition ?) d'embauche pour finaliser ce processus."
Comment comprenez-vous ce "must have a completed hire" ?
Merci
Il s'agit ici de la traduction d'un logiciel RH en Suède/Norvège :
"In this process you can add an additional job for an existing worker.
The worker must have a completed hire in order to complete this process.
An open job requisition is a prerequisite for completing this process."
"Le collaborateur doit avoir terminé son processus (sa procédure pour éviter la répétition ?) d'embauche pour finaliser ce processus."
Comment comprenez-vous ce "must have a completed hire" ?
Merci
Proposed translations
(French)
Proposed translations
-1
1 hr
doit avoir terminé un contrat
J'imagine qu'il s'agit de travail temporaire et que le collaborateur en question est destiné à effectuer plusieurs contrats. Il doit en avoir terminé au moins un pour qu'il soit possible d'en ajouter un supplémentaire, ce qui semble logique.
Le terme "contrat" n'est peut-être pas le plus utilisé ici, j'ai un doute, mais l'idée générale est là.
Le terme "contrat" n'est peut-être pas le plus utilisé ici, j'ai un doute, mais l'idée générale est là.
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Daryo
: ST: "... for an existing worker" // if the "contract of employment" has just ended, how could it be an "existing" worker??
18 hrs
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I was thinking of temporary work, so it made sense, but it seems this is not temporary work, as indicated the asker.
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20 hrs
English term (edited):
The worker must have a completed hire
la procédure d'embauche doit avoir été complétée / menée à bout
The worker must have a completed hire = literally: the variable "worker XYZ" must have the attribute "hiring process" set to "completed", before you can start meddling with the attribute "jobs/allocated tasks"
when someone is offered employment (be it permanent or temporary), often the person starts working even before all the various formalities and/or checks are completed; that "transitional period" can be just few days or in some cases far longer.
"In this process you can add an additional job for an existing worker.
The worker must have a completed hire in order to complete this process.
An open job requisition is a prerequisite for completing this process.\"
=>
An open job requisition is a prerequisite for completing this process.
= there must must an internal [to the company] demand for a "job" that I would more understand as "tâches à accomplir" rather than "poste de travail"
if you want to give this required "job/tâches à accomplir" to someone already employed (in effect change the "job description" on that employee), you can do it only if the "hiring process" for that employee has been completed!
IOW this computerised HR system won't allow you to start changing the "job description" by adding new tasks/responsibilities to someone who just started and his/her HR record is still incomplete.
when someone is offered employment (be it permanent or temporary), often the person starts working even before all the various formalities and/or checks are completed; that "transitional period" can be just few days or in some cases far longer.
"In this process you can add an additional job for an existing worker.
The worker must have a completed hire in order to complete this process.
An open job requisition is a prerequisite for completing this process.\"
=>
An open job requisition is a prerequisite for completing this process.
= there must must an internal [to the company] demand for a "job" that I would more understand as "tâches à accomplir" rather than "poste de travail"
if you want to give this required "job/tâches à accomplir" to someone already employed (in effect change the "job description" on that employee), you can do it only if the "hiring process" for that employee has been completed!
IOW this computerised HR system won't allow you to start changing the "job description" by adding new tasks/responsibilities to someone who just started and his/her HR record is still incomplete.
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Premium✍️
: La procédure d'embauche n'est pas unilatérale. Le candidat ne peut pas en être exclu.//FAUX: ST précise "The WORKER must have a completed hire"...
3 days 5 hrs
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certainly true, but the ST is about the whole of the hiring process being completed, whether some steps are to be done by the employee, the HR department or whoever else ... // the worker "must have" is NOT the same as the worker "must do it"
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disagree |
GILLES MEUNIER
: is supposed to mean what exactly?
4 days
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if you need an explanation for "une procédure ... menée à bout" that's just slightly / a little bit / possibly / marginally worrying ... il y a de quoi s'inquiéter juste un chouïa?
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agree |
Tony M
: You have exactly addressed the point I have been labouring so hard to explain.
7 days
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Thanks!
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-1
8 days
doit achever son processus d'embauche
Pour alléger le paragraphe et éviter des tournures maladroites.
>>Afin de finaliser ce processus, XXX doit compléter/achever/satisfaire (entièrement) son processus d'embauche.<<
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Note added at 8 days (2017-01-12 18:28:01 GMT)
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P.S. Oui, j'ai supprimé ma réponse précédente parce qu'on a caché ma réponse au "peer comment" initial. Je voudrais ajouter que lorsque j'offre mon aide bénévole ici, ce sont mes propres idées, mes propositions e tmes réflexions personnelles que j'exprime. Je ne consulte pas de francophones ou d'autres locuteurs natifs avant de participer. Je n'ai pas malheureusment le temps ni le loisir de passer mes journées entières à discourir et à m'éterniser dans des discussions KudoZ. Je réfléchis très sérieusement avant de faire des suggestions.
Je pense qu'il ne faut pas aller au-delà du texte original ni compliquer inutilement.
Bonne soirée. ;))
>>Afin de finaliser ce processus, XXX doit compléter/achever/satisfaire (entièrement) son processus d'embauche.<<
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Note added at 8 days (2017-01-12 18:28:01 GMT)
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P.S. Oui, j'ai supprimé ma réponse précédente parce qu'on a caché ma réponse au "peer comment" initial. Je voudrais ajouter que lorsque j'offre mon aide bénévole ici, ce sont mes propres idées, mes propositions e tmes réflexions personnelles que j'exprime. Je ne consulte pas de francophones ou d'autres locuteurs natifs avant de participer. Je n'ai pas malheureusment le temps ni le loisir de passer mes journées entières à discourir et à m'éterniser dans des discussions KudoZ. Je réfléchis très sérieusement avant de faire des suggestions.
Je pense qu'il ne faut pas aller au-delà du texte original ni compliquer inutilement.
Bonne soirée. ;))
Note from asker:
Merci pour votre réponse MultiPro. Je vois que vous avez supprimé votre réponse précédente. Je me permets à ce sujet de ne pas parler en mon nom lorsque vous dites que Tony m'intimide ou autre. Si j'ai un problème, je le lui dirai moi-même, comme il le sait déjà. Merci à vous et bonne soirée :) |
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Tony M
: It's not just about what the staff member must do. This is computer software. Did you miss this bit (in FR): « la traduction d'un logiciel RH » ? The context provided is clear enough if one analyses it thoroughly.
5 mins
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QUELLE EST VOTRE PROPOSITION?? VOIS PAS "COMPUTER SOFTWARE" DS EXTRAIT. PERSONNE N'A CONTEXTE INTGRL + NE SAIT PAS QUI FAIT QUOI. JE RETOURNE TRAVAILLER (9-5 PM). JE NE CONSULTE PAS DES FRANCOPHONES AVANT DE FAIRE MES PROPOSITIONS DS KUDOZ.
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neutral |
Daryo
: same as for your previous answer - by avoiding at any cost the passive form you are distorting the meaning and shifting the emphasis of the ST // is that because of some silly rule that "passive is never good/must be avoided like the plague"???
3 hrs
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8 days
English term (edited):
the worker must have a completed hire
il doit (impérativement) exister une procédure d'embauche conclue pour ce collaborateur
Whilst I'm quite prepared to bow to the inevitably superior knowledge of our FR native-speaking colleagues, I feel that this way of expressing it conveys the right notion with the correct emphasis, as might be found in a piece of software.
I don't think it would be taking too much of a liberty to add 'impérativement' here, as the 'must' here is clearly a mandatory requirement (for the software to work properly).
Using an impersonal construction avoids all the arguments about passive or active.
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Note added at 8 jours (2017-01-13 09:37:26 GMT)
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There is another important clue in the source text we perhaps shoudn't overlook — employers 'hire'; we can't really say that an employee 'completes a hire', since an employee 'is hired'.
I don't think it would be taking too much of a liberty to add 'impérativement' here, as the 'must' here is clearly a mandatory requirement (for the software to work properly).
Using an impersonal construction avoids all the arguments about passive or active.
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Note added at 8 jours (2017-01-13 09:37:26 GMT)
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There is another important clue in the source text we perhaps shoudn't overlook — employers 'hire'; we can't really say that an employee 'completes a hire', since an employee 'is hired'.
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Premium✍️
: 1Overtranslation 2Goes WELL beyond simple original sentence 3Pleonastic doit+impérativement 4Hiring process already exists 5Regardless of domain (IT or else), worker PLAYS part in it. HR DOESN'T do it all. 6Completed process=PRE-existing /STILL Pleonasm
2 days 14 hrs
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Necessary to convey the full meaning, which otherwise seems to escape so many people. Pleaonasm or not, "doit impérativement" is VERY OFTEN found written by people more erudite than I. I did NOT say HR does it all, that is the beauty of this formulation.
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agree |
Daryo
: another way of saying it - regardless of whoever is trying to insist that translating is about preserving the word count ... I still have a thing for a thing called "meaning" ...
4 days
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Thanks, Daryo! Yes, and I think "meaning" starts with "understanding".
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Discussion
By using the passive form "la procédure d'embauche doit avoir été complétée" you say exactly the same and in fact you keep the emphasis where it is in the ST "completed hiring procedure" as a condition to start adding to the job description of the employee.
As Tony rightly pointed it out the ST doesn't say "The worker must have completed a hire" which would sound more like "normal language" but uses a language that looks more like the jargon of software developers where "have" indicate the property of an object manipulated by the software.
First and foremost, let us note that we are dealing here not just with HR pure and simple — we are actually talking at a different level, about software designed for use in HR — this changes things quite a bit.
For a start, we are not referring here to 'the worker' as an actual person, but rather, as an object being manipulated within the software. As such, 'having a completed hire' is an attribute of that computer object; do please note the subtle difference between "The worker must have a completed hire" (= the object 'worker' must possess the attribute 'has a completed hire') and "The worker must have completed a hire" (= active verb 'to have completed', the worker = person must have done something).
Possibly some people might find this subtlety diffiicult to grasp... but these are just the sort of nuances we as translators absolutely must embrace.
Concernant les répétitions, je vous rassure je choisis toujours le terme approprié, même s'il se répète :)
BTW, this idea/"rule" of avoiding repetitions is fine in itself, but if it starts leading you to avoid using the right/exact term when it does matter to use the exact term, then I would simply ditch/ignore this "rule" - getting the correct/exact meaning is far more important that having a "nice sounding" text!
It sounds silly, I know, but I guess the 'add to existing' function operates differently from a 'new employee' function.
I would expect 'completed hire' to mean that the process of hiring (engaging) this employee has been completed: e.g. perhaps contract signed, trial period completed successfully, etc.