This question was closed without grading. Reason: Other
Mar 7, 2018 00:21
6 yrs ago
16 viewers *
French term
marronnier
French to English
Marketing
Retail
This is an interesting piece about what Amazon should be doing about the disconnect between its advocacy of responsible sourcing & manufacturing, and its implicit advocacy of consumerism. The sentence is: "Deux événements presse à l’occasion des **marronniers** commerciaux pour nourrir les journalistes sur les thèmes rédactionnels clés, avec au-delà d’une présentation produits une étude liée au **marronnier**"
It later refers to Valentine's Day and Black Friday as "marronniers".
I can't think of an idiomatic tag in English to match "marronniers".
Any ideas??
It later refers to Valentine's Day and Black Friday as "marronniers".
I can't think of an idiomatic tag in English to match "marronniers".
Any ideas??
Proposed translations
(English)
3 | old chestnut | AllegroTrans |
3 | mainstay | Tony M |
4 -2 | recurring newspaper articles | Francois Boye |
3 -1 | a seasonal piece/story | katsy |
Proposed translations
-2
13 mins
recurring newspaper articles
− Au fig., JOURN. ,,Article de circonstance publié traditionnellement à certaines dates`` (Gilb. Mots contemp. 1980). Le premier marchand de marrons, les crêpes de la Chandeleur, le bouquet de violettes sur la tombe de Musset, sont des marronniers (Coston,A.B.C. journ., 1952, p.196).
Source: Le Dictionnaire T.L.F.I
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Note added at 14 hrs (2018-03-07 14:51:58 GMT)
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https://tuxicoman.jesuislibre.net/2014/09/le-calendrier-de-r...
Source: Le Dictionnaire T.L.F.I
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Note added at 14 hrs (2018-03-07 14:51:58 GMT)
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https://tuxicoman.jesuislibre.net/2014/09/le-calendrier-de-r...
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
philgoddard
: I think this is the right idea, but isn't it the event that inspires the article, rather than the article itself?
2 hrs
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Incorrect! Le marronier is a newspaper ARTICLE, not an event!
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disagree |
Tony M
: This is not the press articles themselves, but as Phil says, the events the generate them.
5 hrs
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Incorrect! Le marronier is a newspaper ARTICLE, not an event
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disagree |
AllegroTrans
: "Deux événements presse à l’occasion des marronniers" means press events connected IN SOME WAY with "marroniers"; read it again
20 hrs
|
-1
16 hrs
a seasonal piece/story
https://www.wochit.com/blog/cbs-news-scores-a-win-with-a-sea...
In this reference you see the possibility of "seasonally themed" (ref. to "holiday-themed video")
Not as picturesque as Marronnier, and though I love the reference to "hoary chestnut", chestnut refers to something which is awfully boring/overdone, whereas my feeling in French is that it is just what we might expect, (la rentrée, les soldes, Noël, La niege en hiver, la canicule en été...) . Journalists themselves refer to "marronnier", and I would hope that they don't think the subject is too boring, even if it is totally predictable.
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Note added at 16 hrs (2018-03-07 16:44:53 GMT)
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* neige of course
In this reference you see the possibility of "seasonally themed" (ref. to "holiday-themed video")
Not as picturesque as Marronnier, and though I love the reference to "hoary chestnut", chestnut refers to something which is awfully boring/overdone, whereas my feeling in French is that it is just what we might expect, (la rentrée, les soldes, Noël, La niege en hiver, la canicule en été...) . Journalists themselves refer to "marronnier", and I would hope that they don't think the subject is too boring, even if it is totally predictable.
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Note added at 16 hrs (2018-03-07 16:44:53 GMT)
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* neige of course
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Francois Boye
: more than seasonal:https://tuxicoman.jesuislibre.net/2014/09/le-calendrier-de-r... // Not quite!
27 mins
|
seasonam is not just spring summer autumn winter.. sales season for ex.
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disagree |
Tony M
: As with François answer, I am firmly convinced this is nothing to do with the narrow journalistic sense here, but refers to the 'old familiar' regualr events upon which sales promotions are hung.
20 hrs
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Thanks for your comment Tony :-) I am sure Asker will choose the most appropriate term for the context
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18 hrs
old chestnut
This (at least in GB) means an event/idea etc. that has become exceedingly familiar
It might work here and is faithful to the source text
It might work here and is faithful to the source text
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Tony M
: Yes, I think there is indeed a slightly negative, or at least disparaging, tone to this: 'old chestnuts', overly-familiar, unoriginal, ... 'pot boilers'; and I think this is exactly the idea being conveyed here: "every year the same old things..."
57 mins
|
thank you
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disagree |
Francois Boye
: Le marronnier is a newspaper ARTICLE, not an event!
1 hr
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Man, do you like to argue...Asker clearly says it refers to Valentine's Day and Black Friday as "marroniers"
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neutral |
katsy
: I agree with François : "marronnier" is an article https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marronnier_(journalisme). However,imo"Chestnut"is too derogatory. //cf Asker's remark at 18.39 " or in this case the article, feature, advertorial placed by Amazon".
2 hrs
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It's not an article, it's speaking about "press events" connected with events (such as Valentine's day) which are characterised as "marroniers"; "old chestnut" need not be derogatory at all, it can imply something endearing and familiar
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1 day 13 hrs
mainstay
Given Asker's preference for avoiding anything with a negative connotation, and the excellent research by Alison MacG above, posted in the discussion area? I wonder if this term might be suitable; it doesn't really need any further qualification, since it would fit into Asker's instances perfectly well and be understandable in the context; though of course, one might add 'mainstay events', 'mainstays of the marketing calendar', etc.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
AllegroTrans
: yes of course, if a strictly neutral term is needed; expect objections from one contributor
9 mins
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Thanks, C!
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disagree |
Francois Boye
: A marronnier is a newspaper article. It's not an event or a marketing tool!
3 hrs
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You are sticking doggedly to your opinion, despite a great deal of evidence to the contrary; I repeat: that is only one particular, narrowly restrictive, possible meaning of this term.
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Discussion
My response was about explaining the text submitted by Asker. As to your response, it has nothing to do with journalism.
I submitted yesterday an attachment to explain how a tree (marronnier) has become a concept of journalism.
An 'événement presse' is an event to present or disseminate 'marrionniers' with a commercial purpose in this case. See the attachment below:
https://www.event.fr/entreprise/org_seminaire/presse.htm
Marronnier is a concept of journalism. No event in France is called un marronnier!
But regardless of what meanings the term can have, there is no need to try and shoehorn all of those meanings into this context, where it is obvious which one of those meanings is needed.
You cannot say that "Valentine's Day is a press article" — it may give rise to one, certainly; nor can you say that they are going to have a press conference to give information about a "sales press article"; it is just nonsense in EN — and would be in FR too, if that were the meaning it had here.
Please read this attachment and listen to the radio info it includes. I hope it settles this debate on marronniers:
https://www.francetvinfo.fr/replay-radio/les-pourquoi/pourqu...
grateful journalists fed the necessary background info at a press event/junket.
If asker is seeking to avoid a negative connotation, I was thinking about 'mainstay' as an alternative...
...
Au vu des prévisions pour l’année 2016 et de l’engouement des français pour les promotions, on présage que la France va rapidement suivre ses deux voisins et devenir adepte de ces nouveaux marronniers incontournables.
https://blog.lengow.com/fr/ecommerce-2/ecommerce-black-frida...
Dans le jargon des médias, les soldes sont ce qu’on appelle un marronnier. Un arbre bien robuste qui meuble le paysage, qu’on retrouve chaque année au même endroit et autour duquel on tourne tranquillou pour trouver un nouvel angle de vue.
https://www.iadvize.com/blog/fr/soldes-ete-2015-ecommerce-bi...
Ils profitent, à juste titre, des événements récurrents (que l’on nomme « marronniers ») de l’année pour axer leur communication sur tel ou tel produit.
http://www.produweb.be/fr/actualite/un-plan-de-communication...
Les opérations spéciales et les grands marronniers, comme le Black Friday ou les fêtes de fin d’année
http://www.ucopia.com/fr/actualites/e-commerce-user-journey-...
« Le Calendrier Marketing 2018, le marronnier social & commercial le plus complet.
Le marronnier marketing, agenda des commerciaux médias et des community managers, le Calendrier Mediatic 2018 est le document de référence le plus complet en France. »
Here, it is clear that it is referring to a 'calendar of events' — not soem kind of list of articles!
http://www.radiopub.fr/blog/2017/12/le-calendrier-marketing-...
It's important to realize that this PR company is applying a term they are familiar with from the jargon of their own journalistic background to a context in which it is less commonly used.
Of course Tony is right to recall that Wikipedia is not the be-all and end-all. However, I have been looking and can only find things similar to the following: (ie a story, a subject, an article but so far, no events have come up)
https://www.francetvinfo.fr/replay-radio/les-pourquoi/pourqu... - here a subject/article.
http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/marronnier C. − Au fig., JOURN. ,,Article de circonstance publié traditionnellement à certaines dates`` (Gilb. Mots contemp. 1980). This reference has already been quoted below.
And even this one, where I thought I might well find 'action/événement' https://www.wearethewords.com/le-marronnier-adn-du-calendrie...
This journalistic use of 'marronier' is just a restricted sense of the original term, which like 'old chestnut' in EN has a much wider meaning in general usage, which I am totally convinced is what it meant here — just from the way the term is being used, even without any consideration of the reason why it is being used in this sontext.
So there are times when specialist knowledge can mislead one into looking for a narrower meaning of a term, instead of looking at the wider picture.
Take another example: 'baguette' — a carpenter will see it with one meaning; an orchestral conductor with another; while the wo/man in the street might be oblivious of those meanings, but just want a loaf of bread!
I don't know where your FR text originates from, but anyone living here in France will perfectly understand the climate here into which Amazon has to shoehorn its advertising.
I cannot emphasize strongly enough that, like several people here, I firmly believe this term (whichever translation you choose) refers to the sales events themselves and is nothing to do with any press article or similar — it just happnes that people working in the field of PR happen to use a jargon term that is used in many fields, including (but but by no means exclusively) journalism.
It's of course also important to bear in mind that, as far as Amazon are concerned, this is very unlikely to happen through press articles — much more likely to be through TV or Internet advertising.
In the text you quote:
"Deux événements presse à l’occasion des marronniers commerciaux pour nourrir les journalistes sur les thèmes rédactionnels" — press events organized to co-incide with 'sales marroniers' to feed journalists editorial themes they can use.
"avec ... une étude liée au *marronnier" — with a [study of some kind] connected to the *marronnier" — a study, survey or whatever relating to this sales 'event'
It later refers to Valentine's Day and Black Friday as *marronniers" — like Christmas and Easter and Mothers' Day, etc., these are the recurring sales drives that come up every year.
old familiars, same old stories, same old humdrum, etc. etc.
I am unsure of what degree of irony is required.
I do rather resent the opposition to my suggestion; whilst it may not be perfect as translation, it contains the nub of what is meant.
Unlike old chestnuts, not all marrionniers are quaint. Each year, French journalists write marronniers on the annual report of the Government Board of Accounts (la Cour des Comptes). This is serious and informative.
Ditto, each year, French journalists write marronniers on the state of inequalities in France. In this case too, the information is very thick on data and regulation and is amply quoted for its seriousness.
Chestnut is a British slang term for an old joke, often as old chestnut. The term is also used for a piece of music in the repertoire that has grown stale or hackneyed with too much repetition.
A plausible explanation for the term given by the Oxford English Dictionary is that it originates from a play named "The Broken Sword" by William Dimond,[1] in which one character keeps repeating the same stories, one of them about a cork tree, and is interrupted each time by another character who says: Chestnut, you mean ... I have heard you tell the joke twenty-seven times and I am sure it was a chestnut. The play was first performed in 1816, but the term did not come into widespread usage until the 1880s
le marronnier is NOT an event or a commercial sweetener. It is a newspaper article, even though it may be inspired by an event!.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marronnier_(journalisme)
The only real problem is that one of the instances is further qualified by 'commercial', which is slightly trickier to fit into EN — maybe soemthing like "regular sales events that have become / are by now old chestnuts"
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/media_multimedi...
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/internet_e_comm...
(I was going to post this before you provided additional information)
Re à l’occasion des marronniers commerciaux
Perhaps something involving fixtures - retail fixtures, shopping fixtures, (firm/regular/permanent/established) fixtures in the retail/shopping calendar
Or perhaps simply retail events
https://www.worldfirst.com/uk/blog/international-business/ke...
Francois Boye
United States
Local time: 12:08
(edit your time)
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 4
https://tuxicoman.jesuislibre.net/2014/09/le-calendrier-de-r...
Francois Boye
United States
Local time: 12:08
(edit your time)
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 4
https://tuxicoman.jesuislibre.net/2014/09/le-calendrier-de-r...
Are there any negative connotations, Rimas? You haven't given any of the surrounding sentences, but the first sentence of your question possibly implies some criticism of Amazon, on the lines of "all they can come up with is these two events". Or am I reading something into it that's not there?
which is kind of the right idea, but it's the events, not the journalism.
And there's this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallmark_holiday