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Préjudice
Feb 8, 2021 14:54
3 yrs ago
39 viewers *
French term

Faire recruter

French to English Law/Patents Law: Contract(s)
Hi everyone,

This is part of a non-solicitation clause. The full sentence reads:

Les Parties s’engagent à ne pas recruter ou faire recruter même indirectement, ni chercher à recruter ou faire recruter un collaborateur de l’autre Partie...

Surely the "faire recruter" is covered by the word "indirectement"? I think the second "faire recruter" should be "faire chercher recruter".

Cheers,
Nick
Proposed translations (English)
4 +3 recruit
4 +2 cause /or arrange / to be recruited
4 +1 have recruited on their behalf
4 procure the recruitment of
4 Solicit
4 seeking / attempting to have them (the other company's employees) recruited (for themselves)
4 -1 recuit [or hire]... indirectly
4 -1 my translation below

Discussion

Daryo Feb 8, 2021:
exactly here "faire recruter" means "having someone else do it [it = the poaching of the other company's staff] for you"

And that can be done directly - by being in direct contact with whoever is going to do it for you (not necessarily an employment agency, BTW) OR "indirectly" by passing through one or more additional intermediaries inserted between you and the one party that will be doing it for you.

I'm not going to start listing "recipes" for that kind of games - too many of them - most ways more elaborated than using a recruitment agency.
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Feb 8, 2021:
faire + INF "faire faire" quelque chose = to have (cause) something done.
So here the parties are undertaking "neither to recruit nor to have recruited (cause to be recruited), even indirectly [on their behalf], nor to seek to recruit or to have recruited (cause to be recruited)...". Or something along those lines.
However, I don't see what "faire chercher recruter" could mean.

Proposed translations

+3
19 mins
Selected

recruit

"Faire recruter" means "allow to be recruited", ie by a third party such as an agency. As you say, it's covered by "même indirectement", and is redundant.

This can be expressed much more simply in English. I suggest something like

'"The parties will not recruit or attempt to recruit each other's employees, directly or otherwise."
Peer comment(s):
agree James A. Walsh
30 mins
agree Emmanuella
54 mins
agree SafeTex : At first, I thought this was wrong but I've come to the conclusion that the simplification of the French is fully justified
1 hr
Thanks.
agree Shilpa Baliga
2 hrs
neutral ph-b (X) : Is it the translator's job to put right the source text? To me, that is the editor's/client's task, not the translator's. A translator's note will help them decide./My clients are interested in stylistic issues - they can mean a lot, esp. in contracts.
2 hrs
A translator's note would be an unnecessary irrelevance. The customer is not interested in stylistic issues - they just want to know what the text says.
neutral Francois Boye : to attempt to recruit is not the English for faire recruter.
4 hrs
I didn't say it was. It's the English for "chercher à recruter".
disagree Daryo : you are grossly oversimplifying the Source Text - if you read carefully the "faire recruter" can be done BOTH directly and indirectly // possibly for being blissfully unaware of the 101 ways to stick to the letter while bypassing the spirit of a contract?
1 day 6 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
10 mins

procure the recruitment of

...not to recruit or procure the recruitment of....
Peer comment(s):
agree ph-b (X) : faire recruter > "procure the recruitment"
2 hrs
thanks
disagree Eliza Hall : Too specific--procurement isn't the only way to breach this agreement. Any type of help or participation in another party's recruitment would breach it. *Added: "cause" is too narrow too.
5 hrs
to "procure" something = cause it to be, to happen, to occur
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1 hr

Solicit

Peer comment(s):
neutral Eliza Hall : Solicit may cover attempted recruitment, but it doesn't cover "faire recruter."
5 hrs
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+2
3 hrs

cause /or arrange / to be recruited

I agree with Nikki S-D in the discussion entry.

This is arguably boilerplate legal English, though caution need to be exercised when the term of boilerplate is used by non-lawyers, esp. those who have never used books of drafting precedents.

BTW, the term is not redundant as recruit and solicit or cause to be solicited or recruited are two different scenarios and amenable to a professional negligence claim for mistranslation.

Example sentence:

A Candidate shall not for a period of six (6) months following such termination, directly or indirectly, solicit or cause or permit to be solicited any FIRST UNION.

Reference:

http://www.wealthmanagement.com/practice-management/escaping-nonsolicitation-agreements

Peer comment(s):
agree AllegroTrans : cause
1 hr
Thanks, Chris. This is bog-standard contract stuff.
agree ph-b (X)
2 hrs
Merci de nouveau and thanks de novo.
disagree Eliza Hall : Too narrow. "Causing" recruitment isn't the only way to breach this agreement. Any type of help or participation in another party's recruitment would breach it.
2 hrs
"Causing" recruitment isn't the only way to breach this agreement. '> A logical fallacy. My answer does not imply this is the only way to breach a binding contract, rather than a preliminary agreement, as your comment would connote in the UK.
agree Barbara Schmidt, M.A. (X) : agree
19 hrs
Danke and thanks
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-1
6 hrs

recuit [or hire]... indirectly

I've seen this in countless noncompete agreements: "not to recruit, directly or indirectly..." or "not to hire, directly or indirectly..."

It means the person signing the contract can't directly recruit people from the company on the other side of the contract, and they also can't help anybody else recruit them.

Sample clauses containing this language: https://www.lawinsider.com/clause/non-recruitment
Peer comment(s):
neutral Steve Robbie : "...and they also can't help anybody else recruit them". Does "recruit indirectly" suffice to cover that? The sample clauses in your link often have extra phrases such as "assist another party", "recruit for himself or for any other party," etc.
14 hrs
neutral AllegroTrans : Isn't this fundamentally the same suggestion as philgoddard's?
14 hrs
neutral philgoddard : Did you read my answer?
23 hrs
disagree Adrian MM. : ...faire recruter can also be by direct means such as failing to stop the recruitment, not only indirectly. So Phil G's comment of "même indirectement" being redundant is another logical fallacy.
6 days
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7 hrs
French term (edited): chercher à faire recruter

seeking / attempting to have them (the other company's employees) recruited (for themselves)

..

to be confirmed: "collaborateur" could be simply a euphemism for "employee" or it could mean anyone working in any capacity for the other party (as self-employed / consultant / contractor ...)
Peer comment(s):
neutral AllegroTrans : Instead of translating the bit asked for, you;ve selectivley moved on by another 7 words
12 hrs
the "another 7 words" + "the asked bit" make sense only together - ever heard of first questioning the question as a method?
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-1
6 hrs

my translation below

The parties are committed not to recruiting the other party's colleague or having him/her recruited even indirectly; nor to trying to recruit or having him/her recruited.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2021-02-09 01:42:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Erratum: 'nor to trying to recruit or To HAVE him/her recruited.' instead of 'nor to trying to recruit or having him/her recruited.'
Peer comment(s):
disagree AllegroTrans : badly constructed English Francois, sorry and s'engagent doesn't translate to "are committed"
14 hrs
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+1
1 hr

have recruited on their behalf


I.e. another party does the recruitment for them.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 hrs (2021-02-09 14:27:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------


I think between over-simplifying and not simplifying enough, I think that there is a middle ground where we have to credit the potential readers of this document with some intelligence and some expertise with legal texts. "On their behalf" does not necessarily mean one or multiple intermediaries in the recruitment process, it can mean either.
Peer comment(s):
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne : Yup. "...Neither to recruit nor to have recruited on their behalf..."
1 hr
Thanks a lot Nikki!
neutral ph-b (X) : That's what it means, but A/T's "procure" sounds more contractual to me.
1 hr
More contractual, sure, but less natural and idiomatic I would say.
disagree Eliza Hall : Rephrased: "on their behalf" is too narrow. If I have X recruited on my behalf, your behalf, or no one's behalf (just because I felt like it), it would still breach the contract. So omit "on [anyone's] behalf."
4 hrs
Reply no. 2: I refer you to my latest note above, but I would prefer not to discuss it any further, if you don't mind -- I think we're just not communicating on the same wavelength. / At cross purposes, as the English say.
agree Barbara Schmidt, M.A. (X) : agree
21 hrs
Thanks Barbara!
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