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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

minerais (in this context)

English translation:

ingredients

Added to glossary by Bashiqa
Jan 12, 2012 14:50
12 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term

minerais (in this context)

French to English Tech/Engineering Food & Drink Industrial equipment
large machine for food preparation. It could be frozen chicken for example.

Cumuler tous vos procédés dans un seul équipement, depuis la décongélation de vos minerais, leur formulation en prise directe, leur cuisson, leur refroidissement et leur cryo-surgélation et/ou enrobage.

TIA Chris.
Proposed translations (English)
2 +1 ingredients
3 +1 meat
3 meat from the subprimal meat cut; subprimal meat
3 lumps of meat
2 lumps/pellets/fines
References
minerai
minerai

Discussion

Bashiqa (asker) Jan 16, 2012:
@ All Not certain if I dare give you the client's reply, but I will and then go-away from the computer.
Oui, mais je l’ai envoyé au collègue allemand tout à l’heure qui m’a répondu qu’il ne m’avait jamais posé cette question.

Maintenant, ni l’espagnole, ni l’allemand me la poseront.



Voici la réponse du client :

Vous pouvez assimiler « minerai » à « produit alimentaire ».
cc in nyc Jan 14, 2012:
"depuis la décongélation de vos minerais" frozen chunks – or hunks – of meat?
Nikki Scott-Despaigne Jan 14, 2012:
raw ingredients ? Raw ingredients would only make sense if they are going on to be cooked and made up into a recipe. Also, 'raw ingredients' does not describe the nature of the cut which is precisely what the term 'minerai' aims to do.

Whether it's beef, chicken or pork, it is beyond the 'découpe primaire' and falls within the 'découpe secondaire' category. The flesh has been trimeed, the carcass removed. The official deifnitions are quite clear. If you fail to convey that idea, then the rendering will be falling short of the classic definition used in industry. Although it may not be crucial to your translation, the original has opted for a specific term which has specific meaning in context. 'Raw ingredients' does nothing to convey the type of cut, which is what 'minerai' is all about!
Bashiqa (asker) Jan 13, 2012:
@ All I'm now back with this job and see that much discussion has been going on. Raw meat sounds fine but we then have 'produits cru' so perhaps raw ingredients would be a better option as they are not just treating meat.
Réaliser un produit IQF, même à partir d’un minerai à pouvoir agglomérant moyen, comme des produits crus,
Pouvoir réaliser un cryo-enrobage après la surgélation IQF,
Cumuler tous vos procédés dans un seul équipement, depuis la décongélation de vos minerais, leur formulation en prise directe, leur cuisson, leur refroidissement et leur cryo-surgélation et/ou enrobage.
Jennifer White Jan 13, 2012:
@BD I don't know, but I had already enquired about this and another name was mentioned........Maybe best to continue this discussion in the forums. I don't think the matter should rest here.
B D Finch Jan 13, 2012:
@Jennifer & gallagy2 I believe the moderator who dealt with that was Yana Dovgopol; though that might be a mistake as her working languages include Spanish, Hungarian, Russian, Acoli, German and Bengali among others (clearly a remarkable linguist), so she would surely not have deprived the French to English community of Bourth's contributions?
Jennifer White Jan 13, 2012:
@gallagy2 Yes, bring back Bourth! We miss him and can ill afford to lose such excellent contributors.
Bashiqa (asker) Jan 12, 2012:
@ Phil For your info 'malaxer' is not a mixer but a 'massager'!! Don't laugh and don't ask, I've already had my ears pulled over this.
liz askew Jan 12, 2012:
Perhaps a general round of applause is required here, for all the hard workers:)
liz askew Jan 12, 2012:
@Bashiqa
Cheers, me dear! Can't win 'em all..
Bashiqa (asker) Jan 12, 2012:
@Liz Thanks as usual for your input even if in this case not quite on the right track. I for one will sing your praises and hard work.
Bashiqa (asker) Jan 12, 2012:
@ Phil If we were mixing 'dough' it would be kneading:-)
liz askew Jan 12, 2012:
As for "all the time"....I spend hours helping colleagues, so I think we should not be too picky here...thank you for your understanding all.
liz askew Jan 12, 2012:
Indeed I am busy Phil...hence the "2" confidence level.
Jocelyne Cuenin Jan 12, 2012:
raw material (s) c'est la traduction proposée sur le site que j'ai cité en dernier. C'est la matière première pour les charcutiers http://dc129.4shared.com/doc/ILc5qbxm/preview.html
philgoddard Jan 12, 2012:
After all the time we've spent on this question... We've had it before. Interestingly, Liz was too busy to read the context last time too :-)
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/livestock_animal...
Jocelyne Cuenin Jan 12, 2012:
Se trouve dans les documents officiels par exemple ici, dans l'alimentaire aussi. ici la composition principale de la viande hachée (et je suis d'accord, pas très appétissant) : http://www.economie.gouv.fr/files/directions_services/daj/ma...
Ah oui, même piste que Wendy.
Ou bien ici :
Matières premières exploitables :
Minerais issus de morceaux difficilement utilisables : parures, épaule de dinde, jarret de
mouton, queue, pulpes de poisson, VSM,… ou de morceaux plus nobles : gigot, tranche,
filet et cuisse…auxquels on peut ajouter une part de parures ou de VSM, voire de pulpe, de
graisses diverses (canard, boeuf, mouton), mais aussi foie gras, fromage, certains fruits et légumes…

Principe de mise en oeuvre :
1. Le minerai de base est additionné d’eau, (0% à 30% recommandé, ou + selon l’aspect recherché) et de PALGACOL (à sec ou pré-mélangé),
philgoddard Jan 12, 2012:
Doh! I was thinking Lutetia was Portugal. Ignore everything I said, especially since Wendy might be onto something.
Didier Martiny Jan 12, 2012:
beurk Je rejoins Phil : ce n'est guère appétissant.
Quant au nom de la société, Lutetia, il fait référence au nom latin de la ville de Paris http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutèce
Rien de portugais, là-dedans. Vu la qualité du français, je doute fortement qu'il s'agisse d'une traduction. Même si l'utilisation du terme "minerai" dans ce contexte me laisse pantois.
philgoddard Jan 12, 2012:
The pictures are enough to put you off processed foods for life.
philgoddard Jan 12, 2012:
Yes, I've come to the same conclusion. The company's name suggests some kind of Portuguese connection, so the text may have been translated from that language. The machine is a malaxeur (mixer), and a different type of malaxeur is used to separate iron ore. I think something may have got lost in translation - though if that's the case, why hasn't the company corrected it on their website?
Bashiqa (asker) Jan 12, 2012:
Ingredients probably covers most items. By the way they then go into a "massager" would you believe!!
B D Finch Jan 12, 2012:
Another possibility If the original language wasn't French and the translator was faced with a term such as "raw materials", looked it up in the dictionary and incorrectly translated it as "minérais". So, I suggest you translate it as "ingredients".
philgoddard Jan 12, 2012:
I think BD was joking. I've had a look at the company's website (which is easily found by Googling if you want a better idea of what these machines do). The English version uses "raw materials" for what goes in to the machine. "Minérais" seems a strange word to use, but could that be what it means?
Bashiqa (asker) Jan 12, 2012:
@BD You've got me there. Must confess that option did not occur to me!!
B D Finch Jan 12, 2012:
For spinach haters? Could this be a quick way of improving iron and magnesium etc. intake: muching on bars of iron ore?

Proposed translations

+1
21 mins
Selected

ingredients

See my discussion posting.
Peer comment(s):
agree Yvonne Gallagher : seems to be //hmm...so I see:-)??Bourth gone??? That's really bad. He really was/is excellent and funny too. Very erudite in an amusing way. WHY??? Can we petition or something?
15 mins
Thanks gallagy. Apparently, it isn't quite. Bourth's answer when this was asked before, as discovered by Wendy, was right as usual. It's unfortunate that the thought police have eliminated him (like other excellent past contributors), from ProZ.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "After all the discussion we end up where we started. I did add 'raw' as they go on to be processed."
23 mins

lumps/pellets/fines

Direct reduced iron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_reduced_iron
Direct-reduced iron (DRI), also called sponge iron, is produced from direct reduction of iron ore (in the form of lumps, pellets or fines) by a reducing gas ...

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Note added at 24 mins (2012-01-12 15:15:18 GMT)
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Réduction directe | Techniques de l'Ingénieur
www.techniques-ingenieur.fr/...ferreux.../reductio... - Translate this page
10 sept. 2005 – Depuis une vingtaine d'années, quatre faits sont devenus très marquants dans le domaine de la réduction directe des minerais de fer, qui est, ...

could be totally irrelevant

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Note added at 25 mins (2012-01-12 15:16:02 GMT)
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FDC : l'agglomération des minerais, par Guy Renaux [mise à jour ...
www.museedelaporte.be/.../fdc-lagglomeration-des... - Translate this page
24 nov. 2010 – Les divers types de minerais (fines de criblage, concentrés et « pellets feeds ») sont extraits au moyen de 6 doseurs principaux à pesage ...

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Note added at 25 mins (2012-01-12 15:16:20 GMT)
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or

concentrate

as you wish
Peer comment(s):
neutral B D Finch : Have you read the discussion entries?
6 mins
no.too busy.
Something went wrong...
+1
43 mins

meat

I think this is what it finally boils down to.

Il faut alors recourir à ce que l’on appelle du « minerai » (ou minerai de chair), qui comme le précise un document du ministère de l’Economie « correspond exclusivement à des ensembles de muscles striés et de leurs affranchis, y compris les tissus graisseux y attenant, provenant de viandes fraîches découpées et désossées, réfrigérées, congelées ou surgelées, répondant aux spécifications prévues par le Code des usages. » (source : economie.gouv.fr – pdf). En clair, il faut recourir à une matière première carnée autre que celle de la bête abattue
http://archive.feedblitz.com/229218/~4064438

Peer comment(s):
agree Yvonne Gallagher : maybe RAW meat?
1 hr
Yes thanks, thats probably better, though in this case the "cuisson" follows later, so superfluous.
Something went wrong...
16 hrs
French term (edited): minerai

meat from the subprimal meat cut; subprimal meat

'Primal cut' is the first cut into the animal. The next stage is to reduce those cuts into smaller pieces ready for the consumer. 'Minerai' are the pieces of meat which enter into the 'subprimal cut' category, the origin of the term being that by the time they reach this stage, their market value has been raised to a precious level for the vendor!

In context, it may be quite sufficient to say "subprimal meat' which although is a little unsatisfactory as it is rather synonymous with 'découpe secondaire' than directy with 'minerai', it is none the less probably suitable here. Note that different coutries will include different types of cut in their udnerstanding ot pirmal/subprimal.



1) http://www.minefi.gouv.fr/fonds_documentaire/daj/guide/gpem/...

« 3.1.2. Conditions de production

Les viandes hachées doivent être fabriquées dans des ateliers agréés pour la mise sur le marché communautaire. Les matières premières doivent provenir exclusivement d’ateliers de découpe agréés pour la mise sur le marché communautaire et être utilisées dans un délai de six jours maximum après abattage pour la viande réfrigérée, neuf jours maximum après abattage pour la viande bovine désossée conditionnée sous vide (sous réserve d’un conditionnement dans les quatre jours suivant l’abattage), 18 mois pour la viande bovine congelée, 12 mois pour la viande ovine et caprine congelée, et six mois pour la viande porcine congelée. L’utilisation de viandes congelées est interdite dans la fabrication des viandes hachées réfrigérées ; elle est réservée à la fabrication de viande hachée surgelée ou congelée.
Le minerai ou minerai de chair utilisé pour la fabrication des viandes hachées correspond exclusivement à des ensembles de muscles striés et de leurs affranchis (1), y compris les tissus graisseux y attenant, provenant de viandes fraîches découpées et désossées, réfrigérées, congelées ou surgelées, répondant aux spécifications prévues par le Code des usages.

(1) Les affranchis sont des morceaux de viande produits exclusivement lors de la découpe (désossage, parage et piéçage) et débarrassés des aponévroses et des glandes. Ils ne peuvent pas à eux seuls constituer un minerai congelé. Leur incorporation dans les viandes hachées ne doit en aucun cas dépasser les proportions anatomiques.»


2) http://www.office-elevage.fr/publications/cahier/rap-ent05/A...

« DECOUPE SECONDAIRE : morceaux désossés nécessitant une découpe supplémentaire avant la vente au consommateur final muscles désossés, semi-parés, prêts à découper… [5] : ex : rumsteak PAD (bœuf), échine ou palette PAD (porc)… minerai [6] : viande destinée à la fabrication de steak haché par exemple »


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Note added at 16 hrs (2012-01-13 07:30:25 GMT)
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Note that 'sibprimal' cuts often need further cutting before being ready for retail.

http://www.flashcardmachine.com/chapter-16meat-andpolutry.ht...

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Note added at 16 hrs (2012-01-13 07:33:30 GMT)
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Ooops, "sUbprimal", untrimmed

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Note added at 20 hrs (2012-01-13 11:22:42 GMT)
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It is therefore of course raw meat, but much more than that.

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Note added at 20 hrs (2012-01-13 11:23:26 GMT)
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Read through the sources quoted to see how 'minerai' is used.
Something went wrong...
1 hr
French term (edited): minerais

lumps of meat

Based on texts found by googling. For instance:

ii) When the meat used as the raw material is other than that consisting solely of lumps of meat
<1> The frozen meat used as the raw material for production must be thawed out in such a way that its temperature does not rise above 10°C.
<2> The trimming of the meat used as the raw material for production must be performed in such a way that its temperature does not rise above 10°C. [...]
http://agro.gov.vn/images/2007/05/Quy dinh chi tiet.pdf

Also see the French text posted separately as a "Reference."



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Note added at 2 days4 hrs (2012-01-14 19:27:38 GMT)
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Maybe better: hunks of meat, or frozen hunks of meat.
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

34 mins
Reference:

minerai

Le minerai ou minerai de chair utilisé pour la fabrication des viandes hachées correspond exclusivement à des ensembles de muscles striés et de leurs affranchis1, y compris les tissus graisseux y attenant,
provenant de viandes fraîches découpées et désossées, réfrigérées, congelées ou surgelées, répondant aux spécifications prévues par le Code des usages.

http://www.liste-hygiene.org/arcviandehachee.html
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree philgoddard : That's interesting. So I wonder what it's called in English.
20 mins
Thanks Phil. Only think wrong with the previous ProZ answer is that here we are dealing with chicken!
agree B D Finch : Interesting! I actually checked "minerai" in the Grand Robert and they only defined it as ore (in French, of course).
1 hr
Thanks B D. But this is without the accent.
agree Yvonne Gallagher : very interesting!
1 hr
Thanks again.
agree Liliane Hatem
2 hrs
Thanks Liliane
Something went wrong...
55 mins
Reference:

minerai

Here's what I found, googling with "viande" etc.

Le minerai ou minerai de chair utilisé pour la fabrication des viandes hachées correspond exclusivement à des ensembles de muscles striés et de leurs affranchis(1), y compris les tissus graisseux y attenant, provenant de viandes fraîches découpées et désossées, réfrigérées, congelées ou surgelées, répondant aux spécifications prévues par le Code des usages.

(1) Les affranchis sont des morceaux de viande produits exclusivement lors de la découpe (désossage, parage et piéçage) et débarrassés des aponévroses et des glandes. Ils ne peuvent pas à eux seuls constituer un minerai congelé. Leur incorporation dans les viandes hachées ne doit en aucun cas dépasser les proportions anatomiques.

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Note added at 56 mins (2012-01-12 15:47:30 GMT)
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Oops, the link:
http://www.economie.gouv.fr/files/directions_services/daj/ma...

And it looks like others have found this too. ;-)
Something went wrong...
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