Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Italian term or phrase:
defunti non collocati
English translation:
unburied dead
Added to glossary by
Giles Watson
Feb 2, 2009 18:35
15 yrs ago
Italian term
defunti non collocati
Italian to English
Art/Literary
Poetry & Literature
slovenian legends
I think I get the idea but can't think of how to translate it... The phrase has appeared in two passages about mythical creatures. here is one example:
" La cultura popolare ha domesticato l’ambiente dando nomi ai luoghi e legando storie ai punti più salienti. Storie tanto più vive quanto più i luoghi erano carichi di suggestione. E come la Krivapekno čelò, una grotta nei pressi di San Leonardo, così non c’è jama che non possedesse richiami ad esseri mitici (le Krivapete, le Vile o il dispettoso piccolo Škrat che secondo molte leggende è la creatura non voluta e sepolta di nascosto dalla madre o il neonato morto senza battesimo), storie di violenza e di defunti non collocati, riunioni di streghe o di briganti, presenza di tesori nascosti e custoditi con cura da spiriti o da mostri".
The word 'jama' is in italics and I guess it's Slovenian.
" La cultura popolare ha domesticato l’ambiente dando nomi ai luoghi e legando storie ai punti più salienti. Storie tanto più vive quanto più i luoghi erano carichi di suggestione. E come la Krivapekno čelò, una grotta nei pressi di San Leonardo, così non c’è jama che non possedesse richiami ad esseri mitici (le Krivapete, le Vile o il dispettoso piccolo Škrat che secondo molte leggende è la creatura non voluta e sepolta di nascosto dalla madre o il neonato morto senza battesimo), storie di violenza e di defunti non collocati, riunioni di streghe o di briganti, presenza di tesori nascosti e custoditi con cura da spiriti o da mostri".
The word 'jama' is in italics and I guess it's Slovenian.
Proposed translations
(English)
4 +1 | unburied dead | Giles Watson |
5 | graveless dead | Michael Korovkin |
4 | the dead who had never been laid to rest | Michael Korovkin |
2 | deceased unburied | Fiorsam |
Change log
Feb 3, 2009 16:43: Giles Watson Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+1
46 mins
Selected
unburied dead
This looks as if it is referring to what happens when you leave bodies unburied, a common theme in folk tales all over the world.
"Jama" is the Slovene word for "cave" or "grotto". If you ever get the chance, the cave system - complete with train ride - at Postojna is stunning!
Giles
"Jama" is the Slovene word for "cave" or "grotto". If you ever get the chance, the cave system - complete with train ride - at Postojna is stunning!
Giles
Reference:
Note from asker:
Thanks, Giles. Why didn't I think of that? I was off on another track, thinking 'non collocati' referred to 'spirits in limbo' between heaven and hell. |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Jim Tucker (X)
2 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks, Giles (also for the link and recommendation!). Thanks too to Michael and Fiorsam. I liked Michael's alternative but agreee with you entirely concerning the need for a concise noun phrase here. Besides, I am under strict instruction to keep to the original word limit!! Thanks again."
14 mins
deceased unburied
or not buried - just another guess
Jul 30, 2000 ... It is considered a matter of great shame and discourtesy to leave the deceased unburied -- his soul has returned to God, but his body is ...
www.aish.com/literacy/lifecycle/The_Jewish_Way_of_Death.asp
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Note added at 3 hrs (2009-02-02 22:05:02 GMT)
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Thank you for your comment. You're absolutely correct - I just lifted the phrase without reflecting on the grammatical ramifications.
Jul 30, 2000 ... It is considered a matter of great shame and discourtesy to leave the deceased unburied -- his soul has returned to God, but his body is ...
www.aish.com/literacy/lifecycle/The_Jewish_Way_of_Death.asp
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Note added at 3 hrs (2009-02-02 22:05:02 GMT)
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Thank you for your comment. You're absolutely correct - I just lifted the phrase without reflecting on the grammatical ramifications.
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Jim Tucker (X)
: This involves a misapplication of the text that you quote: "to leave the deceased unburied" - here "unburied" is predicative (after "leave") - you need it in attributive position: "the unburied dead"
2 hrs
|
Thank you for your comment. You're absolutely correct - I just lifted the phrase without reflecting on the grammatical ramifications.
|
4 hrs
the dead who had never been laid to rest
"the unburried dead" is right, of course, but appears to be too dry for the context... and smacking of corpses srewn around... And yet I'm saying basically the same thing except beating about the bush... as does, and I think requires, the entire text.
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Giles Watson
: Hi Michael. We already have enough information. "Morti non collocati" here one element in a list of eight different kinds of folk tale. A concise noun phrase is absolutely necessary to avoid "translation bloat"! Giles
6 hrs
|
22 hrs
graveless dead
Hey, sorry for repeat entry but I've just had this idea and think it's too suitable to omit.
Short (as you require) and yet a bit vaguer and spookier than the, I repeat, semantically excellent "unburried dead".
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Note added at 22 hrs (2009-02-03 17:09:00 GMT) Post-grading
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not to be confused with the Grateful Dads... who are by now all dead, but, one hopes, not graveless
Short (as you require) and yet a bit vaguer and spookier than the, I repeat, semantically excellent "unburried dead".
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Note added at 22 hrs (2009-02-03 17:09:00 GMT) Post-grading
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not to be confused with the Grateful Dads... who are by now all dead, but, one hopes, not graveless
Discussion