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Russian to English translations [PRO] Social Sciences - Psychology / Education
Russian term or phrase:спрашивать с парты
This is from a book by Galina Tsukerman on educational psychology:
"Теперь, увидев хоть несколько детей, которые спрашивают с парты, пора всерьез задать главный вопрос: о чем ученик спрашивает учителя?"
The phrase seems to come from Tsvetaeva: "Он тот, кто смешивает карты, Обманывает вес и счет, Он тот, кто спрашивает с парты, Кто Канта наголову бьет, Кто в каменном гробу Бастилий Как дерево в своей красе...."
In order to enter this in the glossary I have to choose an answer, but the contributions by several people were helpful. I translated the sentence this way: "Remember: a student is someone who blurts out questions, even speaking out of turn." 4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer
Interesting and useful discussion. Thank you. After I posted this question, I discovered that the author has a note (in my illegible scan/poor OCR of the book) referencing this passage: "«Он тот, кто спрашивает с парты» - строка из стихотворения М.И. Цветаевой «Поэт», где выписывается образ крайней экстравагантности, чудаковатости, нарушения всех законов здравого смысла. И среди черт наиболее экзотических, не укладывающихся ин в какие рамки правил и привычек, называется склонность «спрашивать с парты». А мы задумали специально учнть школьника умело (то есть зная, как и о чем) спрашивать. Дозволительна ли такая дерзость?"
"Blurting out questions" is widely used in various English articles on pedagogy and classroom behavior but mostly in a very negative way. Teachers hate being interrupted:-). As it turns out, not just in Soviet schools. On the other hand, this expression most accurately describes the act of interrupting and/or countering the teacher with the question of h/h own without a warning. Any kind of парта is not needed in English at all, IMHO.
So, sorry for the educationalist rant, but I do believe the majority of School Ed. buzzwords, active participation included, to be a poisoned chalice rather than a Holy Grail.
I still think some of the links you provided actually demonstrate that 'active participation' is, at best, a very ambiguous term. One might even call it a treacherous one, because it announces one thing and quite often means its precise opposite.
The article talks of 'getting students to contribute' by issuing 'prompts' and using a wide spectrums of gimmicks like 'talking stick', 'tagging a classmate', throwing a 'beach ball' or running an answering lottery - all in the name of 'keeping the students on their toes with *your* [emphasis mine] questions'. The rest of the 'techniques' are equally and totally teacher-led and teacher-oriented: 'introduce', 'get responses', 'initiate', 'have all the students ... either randomly or in an order', &c, &c. The language itself contradicts the implied idea of having the students to proactively ask questions (that is, have a student-lead and student-centered education).
So, what you end up with is, indeed, the plain act of asking a question with the added, but rather important, aspect of being unusually animated or insistent (to the point of flaunting the convention). Why not use something like 'the little quizzer'? 'Asking the teacher a question' sound tame and commonplace. 'Quizzing a teacher', to my mind, conveys something more unorthodox. (After all, the received wisdom is that it is the teacher's job to quiz - or, better yet, to prepare their students to be quizzed by the standardised test providers.)
I don't believe it is a matter of asking with our without raising a hand, standing up - or performing any other prescribed action. In the old-ish paradigm of learning (the one Tsukerman is aiming to reform), a pupil did not ask their teachers questions, period. (Save, perhaps, for a permission to go to the loo.) This is why "спрашивать с парты" is called by her an 'extravagant subversion of common sense norms' (p. 33).
Therefore, the particulars of the action itself - e.g. 'without getting up' - are entirely accidental and need not be conveyed at all. Frankly, with the fall of Soviet-style rigid school discipline even Tsvetayeva's original quote looses its recognisable meaning (perhaps the reason why the author feels the need to explain it).
I agree that what Tsukerman and Tsvetaeva mean is not about speaking out of turn or being brave or bold or disobedient per se. As far as I understand, this is about survival of a student's inquiring attitude within education system tending to suppress their initiative to the extent of no longer being even willing to ask questions while learning even though asking questions is exactly what kids naturally do to learn, and rightly so.
I think it may explain, at least partially, the meaning of the cited metaphor: https://n-shkola.ru/storage/archive/1403694381-1805819478.pd... К сожалению, существующая система обучения и воспитания все еще подавляет инициативу детей: мы воспитываем их умеющими отвечать на вопросы педагога, но забываем о воспитании спрашивающего школьника, побуждающего педагога к совместной продуктивной работе. Детские вопросы исчезают, если информация от взрослого систематически опережает детский запрос информации. «Феномен «Он тот, кто спрашивает с парты» относится к образу крайней чудаковатости, хотя склонность «спрашивать с парты» является возрастной нормой развития детей» [5, 32, 33]. Диалогическая форма речи является естественной, первичной формой речи младшего школьника. The Mikhal's explanation is right regarding the classroom behavior of the pupil.
He is the one who weight and distance – Deceives, who messes plans and cards, Who at the blackboard – asks and listens, Who easily surpasses Kant https://stihi.ru/2012/05/12/1442
А на испанский так:
É aquele que baralha as cartas, ilude O peso e a medida, o que faz perguntas Interrompendo a professora, é aquele Que desbarata o Kant. https://stihi.ru/2012/05/12/1442
Oleg Lozinskiy Russian Federation Local time: 15:16 Native speaker of: Russian PRO pts in category: 56
The poet Tsevataeva is singing asks questions like a young student would ask their school teacher.
I do not think you really need to try to keep this allusion to Tsvetaeva in your translation.
DTSM Local time: 15:16 Native speaker of: Russian PRO pts in category: 16
Notes to answerer
Asker: You may be right, but I was hoping not to strip down the author's metaphorical language into "just plain English." (For sure, it can't be translated literally.)
Explanation: I think the author's message here is in the vein of "being/feel unhindered to ask questions from behind a school desk" (and Tsvetayeva's line conveys the same meaning to me).
Konstantin Krayn Russian Federation Local time: 15:16 Native speaker of: Russian
interrupt with questions/speak out of turn in class
Explanation: Let's try this one for size.
Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D. United States Local time: 08:16 Native speaker of: English, Polish PRO pts in category: 31
Grading comment
In order to enter this in the glossary I have to choose an answer, but the contributions by several people were helpful. I translated the sentence this way: "Remember: a student is someone who blurts out questions, even speaking out of turn."
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