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double osmose en série
Direction effective
Sep 11, 2012 10:00
11 yrs ago
French term

moins de faire expérience que de faire l’expérience

French to English Art/Literary Music experimental classical music
Talking about music as experience (with direct reference to John Dewey) in the context of new music. Here specific mention is made to "field recording", but the term is used more generally, field recording is given only as an example, among others including Cage, etc.

"Une philosophie d’écoute relayée par le field recording qui, en tendant le micro vers le monde, cherche à saisir l’empreinte de ses environnements immédiats. Là encore il s’agit moins de faire expérience que de faire l’expérience, en se rendant disponible à l’immédiateté des situations vécues, expérimentées."

I am as much interested in hearing what distinction people think is being made by omission of the article as hearing suggested translations. Meaning is more important than facile formulation here.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 Here it becomes less about experimenting and more about experiencing
4 ... the sensation takes on more importance than the experience/encounter
3 +1 It is more about "the" real experience than ones that simulate it
2 more about emotions than experience

Discussion

Jocelyne Cuenin Sep 13, 2012:
cela vient peut-être des discussions au sein des consciousness studies, conscience phénoménale, qualia etc.
Si c'était quelque chose comme : confrontation à une réalité extérieure (object), d'une part, par rapport aux impressions *subject*ives que seul celui qui fait "l'expérience" peut éprouver, d'autre part, en s'ouvrant à l'immédiateté des situations vécues ?
cf Qu'est-ce que faire une expérience ? http://sergecar.perso.neuf.fr/cours/theorie1.htm
---
"On dit enfin de certains phénomènes mentaux conscients (en particulier les expériences) qu'ils possèdent des qualités subjectives, que seul celui qui en est le siège peut "éprouver" (c'est-à-dire, dont celui qui en est le siège peut seul faire "l'expérience")...
http://www.philo.umontreal.ca/documents/cahiers/Laurier_NATU...
Helen Shiner Sep 11, 2012:
Distinction being made I read this as saying it is not so much about experiencing a finite, already extant work (at second hand, if you like), but more about experiencing BEING part of the work as it is made. It sounds as if the composer seeks to draw on the lived experience of the audience members, etc. not just to present them with something he did earlier! Quite how that fits precisely with the FR, I am not sure.
Jocelyne Cuenin Sep 11, 2012:
Je jette quelques idées sur la table faire expérience = expérimenter quelque chose de nouveau, faire une expérience, s'assurer de quelque chose en expérimentant
faire l'expérience (de) = ressentir quelque chose. L' -> article défini = défini par ce qui suit (ici sous-entendu ressentir l'immédiateté des situations expérimentées)
Mais vous avez peut-être la clé si vous faites le parallèle avec ce qui s'est dit auparavant (cf là encore ...)

Proposed translations

+1
13 mins
Selected

Here it becomes less about experimenting and more about experiencing

This is the way I understand it. "Faire expérience" refers to experimenting something, literally "faire/procéder à une expérience de..." while "faire l'experience" means to experience something, to live it and witness it.

Here are two example sentences
Example sentence:

Faire expérience d'un nouveau procédé musical

Faire l'expérience d'une musique vivante et passionnante

Peer comment(s):
agree Sandra & Kenneth Grossman : I would not use "here it becomes". This is less about etc.
7 hrs
Thank you. I hesitated a lot myself during those two expressions, and I think you are right.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks to everyone. "
27 mins

more about emotions than experience

it's more about feeling an event than simply experiencing it
it's less about experiencing than it is about stimulating the senses

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Note added at 28 mins (2012-09-11 10:29:15 GMT)
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the experience itself takes a back seat to emotions
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

... the sensation takes on more importance than the experience/encounter

I see this is suggesting that the importance of this "experience" is the sensations it causes, rather than the matter that is perceived.

"encounter" could be an alternative to experience perhaps?
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=2012021406551...

"At this point the sensation takes on more importance than the encounter"

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Note added at 2 hrs (2012-09-11 12:25:10 GMT)
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OR:
"musical encounter"
Something went wrong...
+1
5 hrs

It is more about "the" real experience than ones that simulate it

Hello,

Might that be the meaning?

I hope this helps.

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Note added at 14 hrs (2012-09-12 00:54:37 GMT)
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Isn't "faire experience" just mean "having experiences" in a general sense here? They're constrasting this with "faire l'expérience", meaning to experience "the real thing."

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Note added at 14 hrs (2012-09-12 00:59:10 GMT)
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I meant to say in my translation "than THOSE that simulate it". I didn't read over what I wrote in the translation box ( saying "ones" sounds like I never went to school past 8th grade).

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Note added at 15 hrs (2012-09-12 01:02:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry again..."what I had written..." LOL.
Peer comment(s):
agree Verginia Ophof
28 mins
Thank you, Verginia! I appreciate it. My translation was supposed to read: "It is more about experiencing the real thing, not something that is meant to be like it."
Something went wrong...
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