Oct 4, 2016 09:32
7 yrs ago
6 viewers *
French term
accuracy and rapidity
Native in: English
Works in: French to English, Spanish to English
sans désemparer au fond
French to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
non-payment of co-ownership charges
Cette affaire est inscrite à la dite audience pour qui'il soit procédé à une tentative de conciliation et, faute d'y parventir, il sera plaidé *sans désemparer au fond*.
Does it just mean "without neglecting the merits"? I would be most grateful for other's opinion.
Does it just mean "without neglecting the merits"? I would be most grateful for other's opinion.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +2 | the substantive merits of the case will be considered without any further delay |
Daryo
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| 5 -2 | merits |
André Sainderichin
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Change log
Oct 4, 2016 16:59: Yolanda Broad changed "Term asked" from "\\\"sans désemparer au fond" to "sans désemparer au fond"
Proposed translations
+2
3 hrs
French term (edited):
plaider sans désemparer au fond
Selected
the substantive merits of the case will be considered without any further delay
or
"at the same session/hearing"
plaider sans désemparer = here: if the attempt at reconciliation fails, then without any further ado / without any "relaxing" [without terminating the hearing and convening another one for later] the substantive merits of the case will be considered at the same hearing
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Note added at 3 hrs (2016-10-04 13:19:13 GMT)
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désemparer
Sommaire
1 Français
1.1 Étymologie
1.2 Verbe
1.2.1 Dérivés
1.2.2 Traductions
1.3 Références
Français[modifier]
Étymologie[modifier]
Du moyen français emparer (« fortifier »).
Verbe[modifier]
désemparer \de.zɑ̃.pa.ʁe\ intransitif ou transitif 1er groupe (conjugaison)
(Désuet) Abandonner le lieu où l’on est, en sortir.
Au premier dudit café, les aristocrates n'en désemparent pas ; quand ils s'ennuient dans le café, ils montent au premier, où depuis bien longtemps l'on y joue dans le jour comme dans la nuit sans que rien les gêne. — (Rapport de Monic (du 23 nivôse an II), cité dans Paris pendant la terreur, éditeur scientifique: Pierre Caron, Société d'histoire contemporaine, Paris : Alphonse Picard & fils, 1911, p.366)
(Transitif) (Marine) Mettre un bâtiment hors d’état de servir.
Il eut bientôt désemparé le navire ennemi.
Ce vaisseau fut désemparé à coups de canon.
(Transitif) (Figuré) Déconcerter, troubler, priver quelqu’un de ses moyens.
Son attaque désempara ses adversaires.
Dérivés[modifier]
désemparé
désemparement
sans désemparer (sans quitter la place, sans laisser passer aucun intervalle de temps)
https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/désemparer
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Note added at 1 day8 hrs (2016-10-05 18:29:59 GMT)
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"sans désemparer" is here a key element, given the tendency of the judicial process to proceed one small step at the time, in an endless number of sessions/hearings ...
"at the same session/hearing"
plaider sans désemparer = here: if the attempt at reconciliation fails, then without any further ado / without any "relaxing" [without terminating the hearing and convening another one for later] the substantive merits of the case will be considered at the same hearing
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2016-10-04 13:19:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
désemparer
Sommaire
1 Français
1.1 Étymologie
1.2 Verbe
1.2.1 Dérivés
1.2.2 Traductions
1.3 Références
Français[modifier]
Étymologie[modifier]
Du moyen français emparer (« fortifier »).
Verbe[modifier]
désemparer \de.zɑ̃.pa.ʁe\ intransitif ou transitif 1er groupe (conjugaison)
(Désuet) Abandonner le lieu où l’on est, en sortir.
Au premier dudit café, les aristocrates n'en désemparent pas ; quand ils s'ennuient dans le café, ils montent au premier, où depuis bien longtemps l'on y joue dans le jour comme dans la nuit sans que rien les gêne. — (Rapport de Monic (du 23 nivôse an II), cité dans Paris pendant la terreur, éditeur scientifique: Pierre Caron, Société d'histoire contemporaine, Paris : Alphonse Picard & fils, 1911, p.366)
(Transitif) (Marine) Mettre un bâtiment hors d’état de servir.
Il eut bientôt désemparé le navire ennemi.
Ce vaisseau fut désemparé à coups de canon.
(Transitif) (Figuré) Déconcerter, troubler, priver quelqu’un de ses moyens.
Son attaque désempara ses adversaires.
Dérivés[modifier]
désemparé
désemparement
sans désemparer (sans quitter la place, sans laisser passer aucun intervalle de temps)
https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/désemparer
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day8 hrs (2016-10-05 18:29:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"sans désemparer" is here a key element, given the tendency of the judicial process to proceed one small step at the time, in an endless number of sessions/hearings ...
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Didier Fourcot
: Sens original de "sans désemparer"
http://www.cnrtl.fr/lexicographie/désemparer
même si l'acception la plus courante est le sens figuré; le début de la phrase explique clairement: conciliation, puis plaidoyer au fond sans interruption d'audience
1 day 51 mins
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Merci! c'est tout de même pas sorcier de vérifier ... au lieu de décréter qu'un élément clé du texte source est une simple fioriture!
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| agree |
Adam Warren
: "sans désemparer" here means "promptly", "without delay" (checked in the Petit Robert)
2 days 2 hrs
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Le Petit Robert est un des meilleurs dictionnaires. Merci!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
-2
22 mins
André Sainderichin
Belgium
Belgium
Native in French
Specializes in field
Belgium
Former practising lawyer and CFO
Native in: French 
, Dutch
Works in: French to Dutch, French to English, French to Flemish, and 13 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
French term (edited):
\"sans désemparer au fond
merits
I think you're hunch is the right one.
It's the usual problem: how can you provide a good translation of a bad text?
I've been a practicing attorney for twelve years, so I understand the sentence to roughly mean: we'll have a final attempt at reconciliation, and if that fails we'll plead about the merits of the case.
What's baffling is the "sans désemparer". I think it's just one of those useless, quasi literary , vapid frills lawyers use without even thinking. It seems to mean "undiminished" "without faultering" or something like that in this context. I would consider dropping it in the translation. But perhaps it comes from the lawyer's letter to the client, and he/she wants to demonstrate his/her unflagging determination?
It's the usual problem: how can you provide a good translation of a bad text?
I've been a practicing attorney for twelve years, so I understand the sentence to roughly mean: we'll have a final attempt at reconciliation, and if that fails we'll plead about the merits of the case.
What's baffling is the "sans désemparer". I think it's just one of those useless, quasi literary , vapid frills lawyers use without even thinking. It seems to mean "undiminished" "without faultering" or something like that in this context. I would consider dropping it in the translation. But perhaps it comes from the lawyer's letter to the client, and he/she wants to demonstrate his/her unflagging determination?
Example sentence:
How about: "... failing which, we shall firmly plead the case on its merits."
Note from asker:
| Thanks for replying so quickly. I'll go with what you say which is my impression too. |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
writeaway
: how about a ref or two to back 100% confidence? agree with your idea but not your English. I never heard of 'plead about the merits' for instance. http://thelawdictionary.org/plead-to-the-merits/ " if that fails we'll plead about the merits"
38 mins
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Me neither. I wrote: "on the merits"
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/on the merits">on the merits
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| disagree |
Daryo
: what about "sans désemparer ..."? it's easy to pick only the easy bit ... // "sans désemparer" n'est pas juste une fioriture!
2 hrs
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| disagree |
Didier Fourcot
: The only improvement I can see in wording could be "il sera plaidé au fond sans désemparer", this is the first and precise meaning of "désemparer" abandonner un endroit: http://www.cnrtl.fr/lexicographie/désemparer
1 day 3 hrs
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Discussion
Could you please add more context.