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Apr 15, 2004 10:27
20 yrs ago
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English term

including, but not limited to,...

English to German Law/Patents Law: Contract(s) contacts
I would like to know how "including, but not limited to" (followed by a list) should be translated into German when translating legal texts/contracts. It has been suggested to me that "insbesondere" is ok to use but I am not convinced that this covers all the English, especially "but not limited to". Can anyone suggest alternatives or advise how this should be dealt with in German?
Thank you!
Proposed translations (German)
4 +7 so insbesondere // so unter anderem
5 +6 insbesondere
4 +2 einschließlich aber nicht ausschließlich
4 +1 ...unter anderem, aber nicht ausschließlich....
5 einschließlich (followed by the list) aber nicht darauf beschränkt
3 +1 einschließlich, aber nicht beschränkt auf..
3 schließt u.a. .... ein
3 einschließlich unter anderem ...

Discussion

Steffen Walter Apr 15, 2004:
As Hans said in other words, this is a classic case of legal parlance conventions varying from source to target. I'd opt for using the most natural yet adequate target version, i.e. in this case "(so) insbesondere", which *implies* "non-exhaustive".
Hans G. Liepert Apr 15, 2004:
Natasha, whatever you think, anything else is translatorese and not German (grammatically correct only). The legal language on both sides of the Channel has developped differently and certain English phrases just sound pathetic to a German lawyer's ears.
Non-ProZ.com Apr 15, 2004:
Insbesondere I am still not convinced about insbesondere on its own. If I backtranslated this into English, I would not think of using "including but not limited to..." in EN. I prefer "so unter anderem" as at least this (to me) implies that the examples that follow are just that and are not exclusive. I also think that "einschlie�lich, aber nicht beschr�nkt auf.." is another good option and conveys the English.

Proposed translations

+7
3 mins
Selected

so insbesondere // so unter anderem

I can only confirm the info already given, i.e. that the above does indeed fully cover the English meaning. "including, but not limited to" is just a conventionalised phrase in English legalese designating the non-exhaustive nature of an enumeration, which is perfectly rendered by the German.
Peer comment(s):
agree ingo_h : I think this is exactly what is meant with the phrase
2 mins
agree Ingo Dierkschnieder : unter anderem reicht vollkommen
5 mins
agree Dipl.-Kfm. Bernhard Aicher MBA : I prefer 'so unter anderem' resp. 'unter anderem'.
6 mins
agree Hans G. Liepert
43 mins
agree Thomas Melletat (X) : RA Thomas Melletat - das macht so Sinn, da es juristisch klar und dabei vom Wortschwung her leicht ist.
1 hr
agree LegalTrans D : 'so' würde ich sogar weglassen, Steffen...dann ist es kurz, elegant, schmerzlos - und vor allem zutreffend.
5 hrs
In der Tat, Volkmar ;-)
agree Annette Scheler : kann mich den Vorrednern nur anschließen
6 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Graded automatically based on peer agreement."
+1
3 mins

einschließlich, aber nicht beschränkt auf..

another suggestion
Peer comment(s):
agree Andy Lemminger
2 hrs
Something went wrong...
+2
1 min

einschließlich aber nicht ausschließlich

is what I usually use

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 mins (2004-04-15 10:31:30 GMT)
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ich habe auch schon \"einschließlich aber nicht beschränkt auf\" gesehen, gefällt mir persönlich aber nicht

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 mins (2004-04-15 10:32:10 GMT)
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ich habe auch schon \"einschließlich aber nicht beschränkt auf\" gesehen, gefällt mir persönlich aber nicht
Peer comment(s):
agree Inge Festesen (X)
1 min
neutral Steffen Walter : Hmm... there are more elegant ways to put this, I might think.
1 min
agree Heidi Stone-Schaller
42 mins
neutral Hans G. Liepert : so redet kein Mensch in Deutschland
53 mins
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+6
14 mins

insbesondere

Nachdem ich mir über Jahre hinweg mit allen möglichen (und unmöglichen) Konstruktionen beholfen habe, die in der jur. Praxis so nicht vorkommen bzw. eher unidiomatisch klingen, plädiere ich jetzt auch für "insbesondere".

Like you, at some stage, I felt that "insbesondere" wouldn't totally cover the English phraseology, but am now convinced that it, in fact, does. "Insbesondere" means "in particular", ie is followed by a non-exclusive, non-exhaustive list that includes certain points/items. The fact that there are more points/items ("not limited to") is therefore implied.

Conversely, when I translate legal texts from German into English, I translate "insbesondere" dutifully with "including but not limited to".

You'll find a great source for comparing German/English legalese on the web (see below). Search for your English phrase in any of the German statutes translated and compare with the German original on the other site below.
Reference:

http://www.iuscomp.org/gla/

http://dejure.org/

Peer comment(s):
agree LegalTrans D : Noch immer die beste Lösung!
13 mins
Danke dir, Volkmar!
agree Ingrid Blank : fully agree
25 mins
Danke dir auch, Ingrid ... d;-)
agree Hans G. Liepert : meine Rede seit 45
32 mins
How do they say again ... great minds ... und so
agree Harry Bornemann : kurz und treffend
1 hr
Danke dir, Harry!
agree Steffen Walter : Danke für die kompetente Unterstützung. Warum unterschiedliche sprachliche Konventionen nivellieren, die sich über Jahrzehnte ausgeprägt haben?
1 hr
agree Annette Scheler : jawoll
6 hrs
Gracias a todos. Esa es mi interpretacion y no me parece tan descabellada...En Argentina esa palabra no estaria tan mal usada.
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1 hr

schließt u.a. .... ein

I thought I had asked this question some time ago, but I can't find it now (sorry, I have a deadline and no time to search), but I think this was the answer I liked most (I think it's the most natural way to say it in German)
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2 hrs

einschließlich unter anderem ...

That's what I usually put ...
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+1
4 hrs

...unter anderem, aber nicht ausschließlich....

...so mache ich das immer.
Peer comment(s):
agree Steffen Walter : MAW, Du moppelst immer doppelt ;-)
1 hr
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5 hrs

einschließlich (followed by the list) aber nicht darauf beschränkt

This is more idiomatic than "einschließlich aber nicht beschränkt auf" - I agree that nobody would TALK like that in German.
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