Mar 7, 2021 22:24
3 yrs ago
33 viewers *
French term
United Kingdom
www.lingocraft.co.uk
Native in: English (Variants: British, Scottish, Irish, Singaporean, UK, South African) 
Works in: French to English, Italian to English, Romanian to English, and 2 more.
reprennent un découpage
French to English
Art/Literary
Cinema, Film, TV, Drama
Filipine cinema
This is from an article covering a small number of directors of Filipine cinema.
"... relevant le défi de faire de l'épouvante en plein jour dans la petite ville de Silay. Le film était présenté au festival QCinema de Quezon City dont les sections reprennent un découpage aussi géographique qu'imaginaire: .... [...some names of Filipine horror films.....]."
I am aware that découpage can mean a breakdown from a script, but it also has many other meanings and I need to be sure what this usage is.
"... relevant le défi de faire de l'épouvante en plein jour dans la petite ville de Silay. Le film était présenté au festival QCinema de Quezon City dont les sections reprennent un découpage aussi géographique qu'imaginaire: .... [...some names of Filipine horror films.....]."
I am aware that découpage can mean a breakdown from a script, but it also has many other meanings and I need to be sure what this usage is.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 | sections (of the festival ...) follow a geographical criterion as well as ... |
Daryo
|
| 4 | are a geographic and stylistic cross section |
philgoddard
|
| 4 -1 | take on a division |
MassimoA
|
References
| GDT |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
|
Proposed translations
1 hr
French term (edited):
les sections du festival reprennent un découpage (aussi géographique qu'imaginaire)
Selected
sections (of the festival ...) follow a geographical criterion as well as ...
or
the sections of the festival were determined following a geographical criterion (depending on the geographical origin of the movies ... like sections "French movies / European movies / Asian movies etc ....") as well as according to / following another criterion (whatever is meant by "l'imaginaire")
or
the festival was divided in sections following ...
you don't need to worry about "découpage" - mentioning "sections" of a film festival already implies that the festival was "cut/divided in segments"
the use of "reprennent" (les sections ... reprennent) would imply that there is some set geographical division into sections when organising a film festival, as "reprennent" would literally mean "reuse/copy".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2021-03-08 00:22:29 GMT)
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or the "geographical divisions" used by the festival would be the existing "geographical divisions" of the Philippines IOW the Festival didn't "re-invent" some new "geographical divisions" of the Philippines, just reused the existing ones.
the sections of the festival were determined following a geographical criterion (depending on the geographical origin of the movies ... like sections "French movies / European movies / Asian movies etc ....") as well as according to / following another criterion (whatever is meant by "l'imaginaire")
or
the festival was divided in sections following ...
you don't need to worry about "découpage" - mentioning "sections" of a film festival already implies that the festival was "cut/divided in segments"
the use of "reprennent" (les sections ... reprennent) would imply that there is some set geographical division into sections when organising a film festival, as "reprennent" would literally mean "reuse/copy".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2021-03-08 00:22:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
or the "geographical divisions" used by the festival would be the existing "geographical divisions" of the Philippines IOW the Festival didn't "re-invent" some new "geographical divisions" of the Philippines, just reused the existing ones.
2 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
19 hrs
philgoddard
United States
United States
Native in English
United States
Six languages into flawless English
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English, Spanish to English, and 4 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
47
are a geographic and stylistic cross section
How about this for an approximation? And to avoid repeating "section", you could call them categories.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Tony M
: I think the trouble is that it changes the meaning too much: something 'being divided into sections' is very different indeed from 'representing a cross-section of...' — which I think is quite contrary to the intention here.
4 hrs
|
-1
23 hrs
take on a division
We talk about the films presented at the Festival, which are classified both with geographical criteria and according to the level of imaginations.
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Tony M
: Although your explanation agrees with all our interpretations already expressed, I'm afraid your suggestion really has no relevant meaning in EN.
1 hr
|
Reference comments
34 mins
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Native in English
Works in field
Psychologist, Court-certified legal
Native in: English
Works in: French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
4
Reference:
GDT
I think that "reprendre" may need looking at too. A couple of possibilities are there too for that term.
As for "découpage", I don't know what sources you have consulted but here are some of the results I found:
GDT : "découpage" (filtre "cinéma")
Définition FR:
"Document détaillant les scènes successives d'un film avec leurs dialogues et l'indication de leurs durées et des effets spéciaux éventuels (ouverture, titres, fondus, enchaînés, volets, etc.)."
Suggestions EN:
- editorial script
- post-production (post-prod) script
http://www.pur-editions.fr/couvertures/1479118581_doc.pdf
Le découpage au cinéma — Vincent Amiel, Gilles Mouëllic et José Moure (dir.)
ISBN 978-2-7535-4992-0 — Presses universitaires de Rennes, 2016.
".... On peut invoquer une question de vocabulaire et la spécificité
française de ce terme que les Anglo-saxons ont souvent traduit, comme le mot
montage, indifféremment par « editing » ou « cutting » ou qui est simplement repris
et utilisé de façon très imprécise dans sa forme française.
Au-delà de sa traduction, c’est la définition même du terme et ce qu’elle
recouvre qui questionnent. Le découpage est à la fois une technique, une opération et un outil critique. Il est tantôt perçu comme opposé au montage, tantôt
considéré comme son synonyme. Il peut désigner aussi bien un instrument de
travail, le dernier stade du scénario, qu’une opération « s’exerçant a priori dans le
cerveau de l’auteur sur le sujet à filmer » (Roger Leenhardt). Il peut tout à la fois
évoquer l’opération mentale préexistant à l’enregistrement et permettant d’analyser « l’articulation entre la caméra – en ce qu’elle peut être comprise éventuellement comme le regard de l’instance de réalisation – et le regard de la réception, c’està-dire le regard empirique du spectateur » (Jean-Pierre Sirois-Trahan) et l’acte concret qui consiste à « mobiliser la caméra dans un décor afin de réaliser plusieurs cadrages selon une prévision concertée » (Hervé Joubert-Laurencin)…"
Also:
https://fr.wikiversity.org/wiki/Filmer/Découpage_technique#:...
Previous KudoZ entry: https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/cinema-film-tv-...
As for "découpage", I don't know what sources you have consulted but here are some of the results I found:
GDT : "découpage" (filtre "cinéma")
Définition FR:
"Document détaillant les scènes successives d'un film avec leurs dialogues et l'indication de leurs durées et des effets spéciaux éventuels (ouverture, titres, fondus, enchaînés, volets, etc.)."
Suggestions EN:
- editorial script
- post-production (post-prod) script
http://www.pur-editions.fr/couvertures/1479118581_doc.pdf
Le découpage au cinéma — Vincent Amiel, Gilles Mouëllic et José Moure (dir.)
ISBN 978-2-7535-4992-0 — Presses universitaires de Rennes, 2016.
".... On peut invoquer une question de vocabulaire et la spécificité
française de ce terme que les Anglo-saxons ont souvent traduit, comme le mot
montage, indifféremment par « editing » ou « cutting » ou qui est simplement repris
et utilisé de façon très imprécise dans sa forme française.
Au-delà de sa traduction, c’est la définition même du terme et ce qu’elle
recouvre qui questionnent. Le découpage est à la fois une technique, une opération et un outil critique. Il est tantôt perçu comme opposé au montage, tantôt
considéré comme son synonyme. Il peut désigner aussi bien un instrument de
travail, le dernier stade du scénario, qu’une opération « s’exerçant a priori dans le
cerveau de l’auteur sur le sujet à filmer » (Roger Leenhardt). Il peut tout à la fois
évoquer l’opération mentale préexistant à l’enregistrement et permettant d’analyser « l’articulation entre la caméra – en ce qu’elle peut être comprise éventuellement comme le regard de l’instance de réalisation – et le regard de la réception, c’està-dire le regard empirique du spectateur » (Jean-Pierre Sirois-Trahan) et l’acte concret qui consiste à « mobiliser la caméra dans un décor afin de réaliser plusieurs cadrages selon une prévision concertée » (Hervé Joubert-Laurencin)…"
Also:
https://fr.wikiversity.org/wiki/Filmer/Découpage_technique#:...
Previous KudoZ entry: https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/cinema-film-tv-...
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| agree |
Yolanda Broad
4 mins
|
| neutral |
Tony M
: Although that does indeed describe the classic 'breakdown', I don't believe this technical meaning applies here. They are talking about a film festival that is 'broken down' into 'sections', and they are talking about the way these have been split up.
7 mins
|
|
Agreed
|
|
| disagree |
Daryo
: whatever are Asker's assumptions/first impressions, the ST is not about "découpage" when making a movie, but about "découpage" as in "methods for dividing all entries/movies submitted to a film festival in groups/categories"
22 mins
|
|
Agreed
|
|
| agree |
philgoddard
: Have you ever heard of metaphors, Daryo? Of course it's not literal, but I believe the choice of a cinematic term is significant.
18 hrs
|
Discussion
What about THE WHOLE SENTENCE? ...
wasn't addressed at you - couldn't be as you rightly sensed that in your text "découpage" could well be something else than "le découpage d'un film", although the whole text is about movies (otherwise you wouldn't have asked this question).
Likewise, I would want more context to know if these 'sections' are in fact what we would normally refer to as 'categories' in a film festival; they could be... but equally might not...
But yes, that slant of emphasis is, I think, the intention here: there is nothing surprising about a film festival having geographical sections, but the idea they are also to some extent based on something more subjective like 'imagination' is perhaps a novel idea... or at least, a less common combination. I'm sure your wider context makes all this crystal clear!
"The film was presented at the QCinema festival in Quezon City, offering a cross section of not only geographic categories, but equally of fantasy-based ones: there was..."
OR
"...The film was presented at the QCinema festival in Quezon City, offering a cross section of categories spanning, not only geographic, but equally fantasy-based: there are the Ilonggo
One particular example comes to mind: an old colleague wrote of some scientist or other: « Elle est aussi intelligente que belle », which on the face of it I took to be a not-atypical male chauvinist remarks: "Perhaps surprisingly, she's intelligent as well as beautiful!" When I asked him about his intended nuance here, he was horrified: "Oh no, quite the reverse!" His intended meaning was "She is not only beautiful, but equally intelligent." I think the change of word order between FR and EN can sometimes change the 'slant'.
In many past experiences of this term, I've noted what I have felt to be an inversion of the terms between FR and EN; sadly, due to the way this type of expression is often used, it's not often possible to tell for sure, unless there are clues in the surrounding context. But I think this might be one such case: I think the writer may be saying that the breakdown into sections is (surprisingly) as based on imagination / fantasy as it is (logically) based on geography — a reversal of the 2 ideas compared with the FR. I think this does, however, make it easier for us to see the reason for this remark.
I wonder what others think of my observation?
Why would you want to "preserve" a NON-EXISTING meaning of a term as used in the ST???
There well may be a term "découpage" used to describe the process of making a movie, but if you bother to read the whole sentence:
Le film était présenté au festival QCinema de Quezon City dont les sections reprennent un découpage aussi géographique qu'imaginaire: ...
it's crystal clear that in this sentence - the relevant one / the one to actually translate "découpage" relates to "festival QCinema de Quezon City dont les sections ...".
No one is cutting and rearranging pieces of filmed material during a film festival!
Context is some kind of dirty word?
sections (of the festival) follow some already existing way of making geographical divisions, not that sections define some new way of making geographical divisions.