embu

09:34 Mar 21, 2022
This question was closed without grading. Reason: Other

French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting
French term or phrase: embu
Can anyone enlighten me as to the English translation for this word in art terms please? Wiktionnaire gives this definition but I don't know what the word would be in English.

embu ɑ̃.by masculin

(Art) Ternissement des couleurs sur un tableau.
Il y a des embus dans ce tableau.

Thanks in advance.
Anne McDowall
France
Local time: 05:16


Summary of answers provided
3 +4sinking (in)
Helen Shiner
4 +2faded area
Robert Armes
3sinking-in effects
Mpoma
Summary of reference entries provided
prosciugated, sunk in
Bourth

Discussion entries: 4





  

Answers


6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
faded area


Explanation:
Faded area

Robert Armes
Local time: 04:16
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Anastasia Kalantzi: Justement! embuer veut dire en Anglais : cover in mist, envelop, shroud something in mist. Mais... il y a aussi le verbe "s'emboire (peinture, devenir terne): painting = fade, dull.
1 hr

agree  Mpoma: Possibly, yes. It seems likely that the writer is using this term in an unconventional way: in listing it with 3 other "techniques" this strongly suggests that it is viewed as a "technique".
1 day 3 hrs
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11 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +4
sinking (in)


Explanation:
This article might be useful to you. “Alcohol varnishes are not used in oil painting; but there is one of them which is too frequently made use of on account of its being convenient; viz.—Soehnée retouching varnish. It does not mix with colours, and it is only used to get out an embu. [Author’s Note: Embu is equivalent to the English word sinking. It means a part of the picture where the painting is dull owing to the foundation having absorbed in the oil.] This varnish is absolutely pernicious, because it has a basis of gum lac [shellac] and being altogether insoluble in oil the coatings of colour are thus separated into isolated flakes, making of the picture a mass of leaves without adhesion. Essence varnishes have all one great drawback: they do not evaporate completely, but leave a viscous and coloured residue besides the resins with which those varnishes are made.” https://www.naturalpigments.eu/artist-materials/sinking-in-o...

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Note added at 15 mins (2022-03-21 09:49:49 GMT)
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Here are some other terms: “ Artists call it different names, sinking-in, dead spots, ghosting, blotchiness, and it can be one of the biggest frustrations for oil painters.” https://mysketchjournal.com/why-oil-paintings-get-dull-spots...

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Note added at 17 mins (2022-03-21 09:51:42 GMT)
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I don’t know the context. But have added a number of other terms used (incl. sinking-in), so I don’t think it is necessarily too technical.

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Note added at 20 mins (2022-03-21 09:54:59 GMT)
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Your context makes it clear that the author is referring to very specific terms in use in painting since the 18th century, so, yes, use the correct art historical terminology, as given here, I would say.

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Note added at 1 hr (2022-03-21 11:21:39 GMT)
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Just to be clear, I would not suggest using the French term here.

Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:16
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 348
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks Helen. But would 'sinking in' be readily understood in this context, or would it be better to stick with the French word 'embu'? In the context, which I should have given (I'll add it), I don't know whether this might be a bit too technical.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Bourth: I see the ugly question of whether something should be dumbed down in English because a technical term is used in French has been raised again. More in References.
1 hr
  -> Thanks, CadastreToulous. Yes, painters learn the technical terms of their trade. No need at all for dumbing down here.

agree  Cyril Tollari
1 hr
  -> Thanks, Cyril

neutral  philgoddard: Well researched as always, but now that we have the context, isn't this a deliberate effect rather than something going wrong? And if this is written for a general readership, Anne may be right that it's too technical.
2 hrs
  -> No, I don’t think so. It is a standard art historical term that, as the source states, has been around since the 18th century./It literally lists the technical terms in French! And, as my 2nd ref makes clear, it is in common use amongst living artists.

agree  writeaway
4 hrs
  -> Thanks, writeaway

agree  Samuël Buysschaert
5 hrs
  -> Thanks, Samuël

agree  Rachel Fell
5 hrs
  -> Thanks, Rachel

disagree  Mpoma: We can't really tell (yet) from the context whether this really is about a defect in the painting. It seems pretty unlikely. I've asked for more context... / I don't care what you call yourself, this doesn't work / You're pretty rude yourself
1 day 2 hrs
  -> I’m an art historian, Mpoma. Sorry you chose to disagree but this is the correct terminology. I don’t need any further context./How rude you are./Where precisely?
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1 day 7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
sinking-in effects


Explanation:
See my discussion post.

These are words spoken by the painter Gérard Garouste, see this link: https://art.moderne.utl13.fr/2015/10/cours-du-12-octobre-201...

It is clear the reference is to a deliberate technique, one of four mentioned techniques which must all be consistent with "sans jamais toucher à ce qui serait hors des normes de la peinture à l’huile" (see link).

The painter is in effect talking in a kind of shorthand, not completely atypical of arty, flowery French art-speak. It's still quite strange, but this is the only solution which works.


Mpoma
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:16
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4
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Reference comments


1 hr peer agreement (net): +2
Reference: prosciugated, sunk in

Reference information:
Yes, you'll find texts that explain that 'embu' means 'turned dark' or "turned matt', but 'emboire' is a technical term in painting that the Frenchman in the street probably won't understand. Presumably painters will. And presumably English-speaking painters will understand the technical equivalents, probably 'sinking in', which pretty much says what has happened, rather more than, if you really wanted to blind 'em with science, 'prosciugated'.


"The absorbency of the ground seems to have been both feared (because of the problem of SINKING IN) and desired (because it kept the colors fresh) . [ ... ] The SINKING IN of colors, Symonds's "PROSCIUGARE," seems to be linked in their minds to the poor drying of the ground, either because the commercial primer left out the lead white for economy's sake (18), which seems to reduce the porosity of the paint film, or because it had not dried sufficiently before the painting was executed. [ ... ] The difficulties of this "new" oil medium continued to trouble La Hire, however, especially the problem of the sinking of the paint layer, particularly in dark colors. He disapproved of those painters who did not apply sufficient layers of paint, finishing with what he considered only an ebauche (sketch), using little pigment and lots of oil, as if painting a glaze. If there was not sufficient paint in the upper layers, he warned, the top paint layer would sink into the layer underneath, a process he called emboire. Emboire was caused by painting on a ground that had not dried sufficiently, or painting on a stillwet paint layer, or using excessive oil, especially oil of turpentine."
https://www.getty.edu/publications/resources/virtuallibrary/...

"On the question of whether or not the colours of a painting would turn matt or 'PROSCIUGATED', Canini replied that they would not, 'because the first sbozzo was so p.fectly dry. "
https://www.academia.edu/37305837/Artists_Inventories_and_th...


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Note added at 1 hr (2022-03-21 11:09:53 GMT)
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Here 'sunk in' - or at least a remedial technique - is explained to learners, so it must be known to those of an artistic bent.
"Oiling out (A technique used in oil painting when the oil SINKS INTO the lower layers of a painting, leaving the top layers lacking vitality.
Often SINKING occurs in patches, rather than over the whole painting due to varied drying times of the paints used (some colours dry faster than others).
Oiling out is not a technique which beginners should be worried about. It is more of an advanced technique and is not a necessary part of learning how to paint. It is however, a useful technique once one becomes more advanced with oils.
In practice, oiling out would involve dabbing a very thin amount of artist quality oil medium over the areas of the painting which have SUNK IN using a fine cloth. This should only be done once the painting is dry to touch, as you do not want any mixing of the colours. If you are a beginner and the drying/ uneven tones are messing with your ability to properly assess values and tones, then watch this first to get a better understanding. If you don't have or don't want to use linseed oil, you can also use galkyd and a brush, and only put a small amount on your brush.)"
https://www.kitkingart.com/techniques

"A satin picture varnish was chosen for this project. You can see that there are some places where the paint is slightly SUNK IN, mostly in dark areas. There appears to be an uneven surface."
https://artradarjournal.com/2021/11/17/what-did-picasso-hide...

Bourth
France
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Helen Shiner: Good refs.
15 mins
agree  Cyril Tollari
27 mins
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