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untereinander

English translation: in equal shares per stirpes

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:untereinander
English translation:in equal shares per stirpes
Entered by: thefastshow

14:30 Jun 8, 2023
German to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general) / UK English
German term or phrase: untereinander
Ersatzerben sind jeweils die jeweiligen Abkömmlinge eines Kindes untereinander nach den Regeln der gesetzlichen Erbfolge erster Ordnung.

or

Für den Fall, dass einer der Bedachten vor dem Längstlebenden von uns verstirbt, sollen seine Kinder – untereinander zu gleichen Teilen – an seine Stelle treten.

How is untereinander to be understood here? I don't see how "amongst themselves / between each other" makes any sense here

Thanks for any help
Wendy Lewin
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:40
in equal shares per stirpes
Explanation:
This is exactly what is meant by "untereinander zu gleichen Teilen":
https://probatestars.com/what-does-in-equal-shares-per-stirp...

"Black’s Law Dictionary.
Traditional per stirpes means that the children of a deceased parent divide up their parent’s share."

also check:
https://osujismith.ca/what-does-per-stirpes-mean/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_stirpes :
"Per stirpes (/pɜːr ˈstɜːrpiːz/; "by roots" or "by stock")[1] is a legal term from Latin, used in the law of inheritance and estates. An estate of a decedent is distributed per stirpes if each branch of the family is to receive an equal share of an estate. When a heir in the first generation of a branch predeceased the decedent, the share that would have been given to that heir would be distributed among that heir's issue in equal shares. It may also be known as strict per stirpes[2] or the old English approach,[3] and differs from distribution per capita, as members of the same generation may inherit different amounts.[4] In section 33 of the Wills Act 1837 in England and Wales, it is called according to their stock.[5] "

I would suggest skipping any solution containing "untereinander" of some sort.
Selected response from:

thefastshow
Germany
Local time: 09:40
Grading comment
Thank you
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +1in equal shares per stirpes
thefastshow
4 +1jointly
philgoddard
4amongst themselves/between each other
Sam Habach
4in proportional amounts
TechLawDC
4 -1amongst one another
Andrew Bramhall
3in equal shares inter se (as between themselves)
Adrian MM.
3split among the offspring in equal shares
Michael Martin, MA
1amongst each other
andres-larsen
Summary of reference entries provided
comment
liz askew

Discussion entries: 6





  

Answers


3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5
amongst each other


Explanation:
Among vs. Amongst - Dictionary.com
https://www.dictionary.com › amo...
15 dic. 2016 — In both speech and writing, among and amongst are interchangeable. Both are grammatically correct and mean the same thing. However, amongst is ...

Among vs. Amongst | Grammarly
https://www.grammarly.com › blog
30 sept. 2022 — Both words are prepositions that mean “into, surrounded by; in the midst of, so as to influence; with a share for each of; in the number, class, ...

Among and amongst - Grammar - Cambridge Dictionary
https://dictionary.cambridge.org › ...
31 may. 2023 — Among means 'in the middle or included in a larger group of people or things'. Among is commonly followed by a plural noun phrase:.

Among vs. Amongst—Explanation and Examples
https://languagetool.org › ... › Style
Among and amongst are synonyms, but one is favored over the other. We'll tell you which one it is and also provide example sentences.

Among vs. Amongst: What's the Difference? - Writing Explained
https://writingexplained.org › amo...
Amongst vs. among are both prepositions, meaning in the company of or surrounded by. They can be used interchangeably, so choosing one over the other depends on ...

andres-larsen
Venezuela
Local time: 03:40
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 123

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Andrew Bramhall: "each other" of two, " one another" of more than two.
23 mins
neutral  philgoddard: I don't understand what this means, or why we need so many English references for a word we all know.
46 mins
neutral  AllegroTrans: Nor do I
1 hr
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
amongst one another


Explanation:
In the event that one of the beneficiaries predeceases the longest-lived of us, his children - divided in equal shares amongst one another - shall take his place.

Substitute heirs are in each case the respective descendants of an offspring themselves according to the rules of first-order intestate succession.

Andrew Bramhall
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:40
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 28

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  philgoddard: I don't think this conveys a clear meaning.
20 mins
  -> Yep Phil, it could be clearer
neutral  AllegroTrans: No do I
36 mins
  -> See above
disagree  Cilian O'Tuama: Stolen word-for-word from DeepL again. And again it makes little sense: "children divided in equal shares"!? A brain can be better than AI. //Then maybe calm down and re-read what you wrote.
10 hrs
  -> Not the children divided you clown. Pro-rata apportionment of any inheritance the children/offspring may receive. Commentary up to your usual superCillianous standard..
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
amongst themselves/between each other


Explanation:
It looks to me that in both of the given contexts, the term "untereinander" indeed means "amongst themselves" or "between each other." It refers to the relationship or interaction between individuals who are part of the same group or category. In the context of inheritance and succession, "untereinander" is used to specify that the distribution or substitution is to be done exclusively within the specified group or category, without involving individuals outside that group.

Sam Habach
United States
Local time: 03:40
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
jointly


Explanation:
I don't normally post answers without references, but I can't find one. However, I believe this is the best translation in the context - they all have equal rights, and are effectively a single entity.

I agree that "amongst themselves/between each other" doesn't make a lot of sense.

philgoddard
United States
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 198
Notes to answerer
Asker: Tony TK -can you send me a link to where I can find that sentence on the EU e-Justice portal please?


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  AllegroTrans: but perhaps "jointly and severally" would be better
13 mins
disagree  Adrian MM.: Ha, ha! jointly (and severally) is wrong, as no liability attaches to the issue (singular only). Obiter, re AT's barb I can no longer see, as a member of the Bar for life, I'm not an ex-Barrister (with a capital B).
32 mins
  -> As usual I have no idea what you're talking about.
agree  TonyTK: " ... If the deceased was married, the estate goes to the surviving spouse. After the death of the surviving spouse, the children or grandchildren inherit jointly ..."; EU e-Justice Portal
11 hrs
  -> Exactly! Thanks.
neutral  Andrew Bramhall: Tony TK: there speaks the voice of sanity.
16 hrs
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
zu gleichen Teilen untereinander
in equal shares inter se (as between themselves)


Explanation:
Funnily enough, some client UK Solicitors - who had obviously scraped through law finals without reading a single legal textbook - used to query the Latin phrase of inter se, though '*as* between - rather than simply between - themselves . is routinely and professional drafting in UK Wills and Articles of Assoclation and esp. Articles of Partnership aka Partnership Deed.

Middling CL / confidence level as this legal drafting technique I have used in practice may be new and novel to others.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2023-06-08 19:33:00 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

-> inter se Definition: among or between themselves

Example sentence(s):
  • Equal shares refer to dividing the whole or a group of objects into equal parts. ... He wants to divide them equally between himself and his two friends,
  • nter se Definition: among or between themselves

    Reference: http://www.meaby.co.uk/i-give-my-estate-to-my-children-in-eq...
Adrian MM.
Austria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 119

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  AllegroTrans: This has the ring of being almost convincing; problem is, I cannot find a single ghit
4 hrs
neutral  Andrew Bramhall: Surely an autobiographical allusion in your first comment, and a subconscious desire to return to the fusty cloying atmosphere of a Dickensian legal office possibly run by Ebeneezer Scrooge's ancestors in the rest.
15 hrs
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12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
in proportional amounts


Explanation:
One cannot say "in equal amounts" because not all such descendants may be in fact of equal rank.
A literal translation would not work here because there are differences in the traditional German and English expressions of the thought.

TechLawDC
United States
Local time: 03:40
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 57
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1 day 6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
split among the offspring in equal shares


Explanation:
“In the event that…, the estate will be split among the offspring in equal shares.”

To make this work, you have to rephrase either “untereinander” or “an seinen Platz treten”, as these two phrases don’t go together in their English versions.

Michael Martin, MA
United States
Local time: 03:40
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 364
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1 day 22 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
in equal shares per stirpes


Explanation:
This is exactly what is meant by "untereinander zu gleichen Teilen":
https://probatestars.com/what-does-in-equal-shares-per-stirp...

"Black’s Law Dictionary.
Traditional per stirpes means that the children of a deceased parent divide up their parent’s share."

also check:
https://osujismith.ca/what-does-per-stirpes-mean/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_stirpes :
"Per stirpes (/pɜːr ˈstɜːrpiːz/; "by roots" or "by stock")[1] is a legal term from Latin, used in the law of inheritance and estates. An estate of a decedent is distributed per stirpes if each branch of the family is to receive an equal share of an estate. When a heir in the first generation of a branch predeceased the decedent, the share that would have been given to that heir would be distributed among that heir's issue in equal shares. It may also be known as strict per stirpes[2] or the old English approach,[3] and differs from distribution per capita, as members of the same generation may inherit different amounts.[4] In section 33 of the Wills Act 1837 in England and Wales, it is called according to their stock.[5] "

I would suggest skipping any solution containing "untereinander" of some sort.

thefastshow
Germany
Local time: 09:40
Native speaker of: German
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thank you

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Lancashireman
1 day 5 hrs
  -> Cheers
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Reference comments


16 mins
Reference: comment

Reference information:
is it referring to "descendants" rather than "child"?

liz askew
United Kingdom
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Note to reference poster
Asker: yes, I think so, not sure what difference it makes?


Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
neutral  Andrew Bramhall: Yes, it's referring to the descendants' offspring;
3 hrs
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