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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

jouent de l’ombrelle et de la voilette

English translation:

twirled their parasols and fluttered their eyelashes behind their veils

    The asker opted for community grading. The question was closed on 2012-10-02 07:54:07 based on peer agreement (or, if there were too few peer comments, asker preference.)
Sep 28, 2012 15:44
11 yrs ago
French term

jouent de l’ombrelle et de la voilette

French to English Other Cosmetics, Beauty perfume
From an article on the Molinard perfume house:

Second Empire. Années fécondes, années frivoles. Les bourgeois s’enrichissent, les ducs s’encanaillent, les « lionnes » jouent de l’ombrelle et de la voilette.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 twirled their parasols and fluttered their eyelashes behind their veils
4 the libertines would play seductively under their umbrellas and veils
4 attracted men's attentions with their parasols and hat-veils
4 -1 (The "lions") play of the umbrella and the veil.
3 -1 falsely personify themselves with umbrellas and violets
References
Lionne

Discussion

janisct (asker) Oct 1, 2012:
'Daring' is an excellent word to capture the sense of 'lionnes', thank you
philgoddard Sep 30, 2012:
Kate My reference actually uses the phrase "semi-prostitution", so I think "courtesans" fits perfectly.
Kate Collyer Sep 30, 2012:
Disgree however about courtesans who as cecilea says were more extreme.

The book in phil's reference states (pp 99-101) that the 'lionne' "typified young women's thirst for dangerous sensations in reaction to the monotonous 'comme il faut' ... was associated with unfeminine qualities such as physical strength and audacity, but ... [had] erotic appeal"

I would suggest fudging the issue, and using something along the lines of "the more daring young women", leaving the reader to interpret how (dis)reputable they were.
Kate Collyer Sep 30, 2012:
Agree with phil However technically correct 'libertine' might be, for a UK audience at least it will provoke an image of a Restoration-era (i.e. 1660s) man, c.f. the Johnny Depp movie "The Libertine":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Libertine_(2004_film)

Not in the least attractive or feminine.
Cécile A.-C. Sep 28, 2012:
Libertin (masc. form) and libertine (fem. form) both words (courtisane et libertine) are basically synonyms with a slight difference.
philgoddard Sep 28, 2012:
A libertine is a person, usually a man, with few moral or sexual restraints. I don't think you'd see one twirling a parasol.
Cécile A.-C. Sep 28, 2012:
In the context of the Second Empire 19th century the libertines were frivolous but refined in opposition to 'courtisanes' and here the text is about Cosmetics and beauty...
philgoddard Sep 28, 2012:
That's along the right lines with its implication of predatoriness, but (a) it's modern slang and (b) it refers to older women. I think "courtesans" comes closest.
kashew Sep 28, 2012:
Would this work? and veiled "cougars" paraded neath parasols.
Cécile A.-C. Sep 28, 2012:
in the 18th century the so-called "lionnes"... were the 'libertines' (as indicated by annees frivoles) that would play their seduction with their small umbrellas and veil
philgoddard Sep 28, 2012:
No. I've just discovered what it means and posted it as a reference entry.
janisct (asker) Sep 28, 2012:
And if I was to say 'lionesses' would anyone know what I was talking about?
philgoddard Sep 28, 2012:
I don't think you should leave it untranslated. No one will know what it means.
janisct (asker) Sep 28, 2012:
As for 'lionnes', I shall leave that untranslated as I'm pretty sure we use the same term in this context i.e this period of history
janisct (asker) Sep 28, 2012:
Yes I was aware that an 'ombrelle' was a parasol etc, so yes, I would like a suggestion for 'jouent de'. I can only think of 'fiddle with' but that has unfortunate connotations these days...
philgoddard Sep 28, 2012:
Presumably you're asking about "jouent de". An ombrelle is a parasol, and a voilette is a veil attached to a hat. And have you decided how you're going to translate "lionne"? I have no idea what it means.

Proposed translations

+1
1 hr
Selected

twirled their parasols and fluttered their eyelashes behind their veils

"Lionne" is defined in my reference entry. It means a woman pursuing men, with undertones of prostitution.

You could also say "simpered" instead of "fluttered their eyelashes". It has slightly negative connotations (it means smile in an affectedly coquettish way), but that's not inappropriate here.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2012-09-28 17:56:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Simper" might be better because it avoids having a sentence that uses the word "their" three times.
Note from asker:
This is a delightful image and I think it captures the idea perfectly.
Peer comment(s):
agree Cetacea
21 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Many thanks for your time and effort"
-1
25 mins

falsely personify themselves with umbrellas and violets

where the (lionesses)/strong and provocative women falsely personify them selves with umbrellas and violets
Note from asker:
What does 'falsely personify themselves' mean?
Peer comment(s):
disagree Cécile A.-C. : voilette is a veil that allowed women to play with in a seductive way.
26 mins
pose as "weak, helples, soft" women. Thank you for the veil explanation
Something went wrong...
1 hr

the libertines would play seductively under their umbrellas and veils

sugg. that fits a 19th century picture.
Something went wrong...
-1
14 hrs

(The "lions") play of the umbrella and the veil.

Imho
Peer comment(s):
disagree Cetacea : Totally misunderstood the source text.
7 hrs
Something went wrong...
2 days 4 hrs

attracted men's attentions with their parasols and hat-veils

or even "invited"
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

1 hr
Reference:

Lionne

It originally meant a stylish, aristocratic woman, but by the Second Empire it had connotations of "courtesan" or "woman of easy virtue".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2012-09-28 16:50:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I'd translate it as "courtesan" here.
Reference:

http://books.google.com/books?id=jCA1ChRsZakC&pg=PA109&lpg=PA109&dq=%22second+empire%22+%22lionne%22&source=bl&ots=if8_HQZrAW&sig=uuWZSarIl0

Note from asker:
Thanks so much for all of your clever suggestions - they are all most helpful. You were certainly on form today!
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