Drmanu49 Oct 31, 2009:

Nice one but cryptic to most French natives. Still, I like it very much.

arbizonne (asker) Oct 31, 2009:

This is a bit late, but I went with "Books in the Hood", which is a pun on the film title "Boyz n the Hood". Thanks to everyone for your input.

Catherine Gilsenan Oct 19, 2009:

Title I would suggest a combination of two answers already given (i.e. "Seine-St-Denis (Departement 93):life in a tough Parisian neighbourhood".

Michael GREEN Oct 19, 2009:

Posted my modification before I saw your entry, Sandra : I'm doubtful about banlieue, see above, but I am going to have to drop out of this discussion because of work load !

Sandra Petch Oct 19, 2009:

Maybe we should come back to Jocelyne's suggestion of "banlieue"? The UK broadsheets used the term a lot when reporting on the rioting a couple of years back.

Michael GREEN Oct 19, 2009:

Subtitle or not ... the rest of the title should be explanatory. But the "meaninglessness" of "9-3" is matched by that of "books in the hood", and we are no further forward. <br>If we drop "9-3" (and why not, indeed, since as you say, it may cause confusion) there is still the option of something along the lines of "Adventures in a tough Paris neighbourhood" - but I doubt that is the snappy title Asker is looking for ...<br>"A librarian in the wasteland ..."?
"Selling books in the banlieue" ? Though if "93" is incomprehensible to 95% of Brits, "banlieue" must be too...

Sandra Petch Oct 19, 2009:

Is there a subtitle? I don't see one in the question. If there is, then leaving "93" possibly in quote marks becomes an option. I still believe "93" is meaningless for most (if that's better than "average") people in the UK. And what is the point of a meaningless title?

Michael GREEN Oct 19, 2009:

Sorry to spoil the party, but ... 1. This is the title of an ARTICLE (dixit Asker), so it's not intended to interest people browsing through bookshelves, but readers of a magazine/newspaper. It may even be intended for a specialist revue (tho' I may be wrong there). In any event, I don't think that whether the average Brit (whoever he/she may be) will understand "9-3" is a key issue here, since the sub-title should throw light on his/her darkness.
2. If the average Brit is going to be confused by "9-3", what is he going to think of "Books in the Hood" ?? Maybe I'm just an ignorant ex-pat, but I certainly don't understand the phrase ...

Sandra Petch Oct 19, 2009:

Your suggestion of "Books in the Hood" I think this works well. Any reference to "93" will be lost on 95% of British readers. How many Brits are even aware of this numbering system?

Here's a link to a bookstore in the Bronx called "Books in the Hood":

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2009/05/...

Catherine Gilsenan Oct 18, 2009:

UK OK, so who is the readership here? I have to say that the average British person knows next to nothing about Paris and its areas, so you would have to put in a translator's note somewhere. 9-3 means nothing to a British person, and "banlieue" simply says "suburb". "Tough neighbourhood" would seem a compromise.

arbizonne (asker) Oct 18, 2009:

A colleague on another list has suggested "Books in the Hood", which I really like and may well be my final choice. I have another few days until decision time, thankfully!

Gabrielle Leyden Oct 18, 2009:

Department 93 I agree with Michael Green. If you don't like "tough suburbs", don't have the article, and can't contact the author, why don't you go for "Department 93" or "on the outskirts of Paris"? In the article itself one can add a footnote explaining that conditions in the outskirts of Paris may be similar to US inner cities. Also, St Denis is known to be a tough place, even though things may be changing and the whole department can't be lumped together. We had rose gardens in Bedford Stuyvesant, too, in between the drug dealers and tenements, but it had a very bad reputation. I'd be wary of watering things down to avoid ruffling feathers. As the French say, you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs!

Jessica Noyes Oct 18, 2009:

Adventures in Banlieue 9-3. Jocelyne is right that "banlieue" is understood by many English speakers, and "adventures" has implications that it's not an everyday sort of place. The wording brings back echoes of "Schlachthaus Funf -- Slaughterhouse Five" or "the taking of Pelham 123".

Helen Shiner Oct 18, 2009:

@ polyglot45 No cop out suggested whatsoever! This may be about the soullessness, etc. of the environment, but may equally be about social problems, which 'concrete jungle' does not express. A translator's note is sometimes all that is needed for localisation to be effected.

polyglot45 Oct 18, 2009:

@ Helen not sure I agree with you about "concrete jungle". We're dealing with images here and the expression gives the impression of high-rise buildings, soullessness and bleakness: a place where the librarian's job is not all roses. And I also think the author would be pleased the translator had "localised" for the better comprehension of the foreign reader. Go back to the client with proposals and an explanation of the problem, yes. Why not? But not to cop out

Helen Shiner Oct 18, 2009:

As an author I have to say I don't think I would be too pleased if a translator started messing with the titles of my articles. Even suggestions based only on an abstract do not have sufficient context to have much validity. Perhaps going back to the client with the problem would be best?

Helen Shiner Oct 18, 2009:

Hi arbizonne For me 'concrete/urban jungle' says more about the architecture than its inhabitants. I also don't think 'suburbs' works due to its different connotations. Perhaps just translate it straight with translator's note. I guess if a reader has got as far as finding the article by means of library search tools, they will know at least the subject area of an article like this.

polyglot45 Oct 18, 2009:

weird was about to suggest "concrete jungle"

arbizonne (asker) Oct 18, 2009:

Semi-inspiration: what do you think of "Adventures in the urban jungle"?

arbizonne (asker) Oct 18, 2009:

To make matters even more complicated, I don't even have the article, just the abstract, which says nothing of any use.
Actually, I don't think "le 9-3" is necessarily stigmatising - the inhabitants seem to have reclaimed it in a similar fashion to words such as "queer" or "bitch". Maybe I should say something like "in a working-class neighbourhood with a high immigrant population that traditionally has a low rate of library use" ;-)
Another problem is that it is unclear to an English readership what 9-3 refers to. I shall have to expand in the abstract itself.

Now off to the pool for my Sunday swim. I shall mull it over as I do my lengths.

Michael GREEN Oct 18, 2009:

Yes, but ... Asker is looking for a short, snappy title, and if we are going to start introducing qualifications like "9-3 : adventures in a Parisian suburb which is tough in parts ..." we will move away from our target ... also I suggest that "adventures" already implies that the 9-3 is not an easy place to live.
Besides, this is for an English-speaking readership, and they are scarcely going to be upset if it is implied that the 9-3 is a tough kind of place.
Off to lunch chez ma belle-mère now - back later..

Drmanu49 Oct 18, 2009:

Problem is that some people living there might resent the fact you call it "tough". This is a subjective and touchy subject. You might speak about tough areas of the 9_3 but not give the whole department that qualifyer.

Michael GREEN Oct 18, 2009:

Suburb/banlieue Thanks Helen and arbizonne for those comments.
I agree that translating "banlieue" (specifically the Parisian variety) is a headache, and that is why I modified my original suggestion to include "tough" (no way could Neuilly - or some of London's middle-class suburbs - be described as "tough" ...).

polyglot45 Oct 18, 2009:

out on a limb what is he saying in the text ? Perhaps you could talk about "9 - 3 or Don't judge a book by its cover" ?

arbizonne (asker) Oct 18, 2009:

The problem with "suburbs" on its own is that it has very different connotations in English to "banlieue" in French. I shall continue to mull it over for a while in case inspiration strikes, but I like Michael's suggestion a lot.

Helen Shiner Oct 18, 2009:

Hi arbizonne I think I would keep the 9-3 and offer a sub-title, such as Michael's excellent suggestion of 'tough Parisian suburb', which does not suggest that it is all bad.

polyglot45 Oct 18, 2009:

yeah, or even The life and times of a librarian in the suburbs

Michael GREEN Oct 18, 2009:

Hummm ... You do have a problem!<br>Although Drmanu is right to point out that the "9-3" is not all bad, it is convenient shorthand that says a whole lot of things to French-speakers/residents, and I don't see how you can find a snappy title that will express all that succinctly to an English-speaking readership.<br>Have you considered retaining the term with an explanatory sub-title, along the lines of "9-3 : adventures in a tough Paris suburb" ... ? <br>That would be pretty close to the spirit of the original.