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schöngeistige Literatur
Vergleichslösung

Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

europäischer Kulturraum

English translation:

European cultural area; Europe

Added to glossary by Erik Macki
Jul 21, 2005 23:23
18 yrs ago
German term

Kulturraum

German to English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature Renaissance book production
Hello - another one from the historical printing text - now we're in the Renaissance. How would you translate "Kulturraum" here?

"Heute ca. 40 Jahre nach der Erfindung des Buchdrucks gibt es im europäischen Kulturraum bereits über 9 Millionen Bücher!"

TIA,

Hilary ;-)
Proposed translations (English)
4 +5 Europe
3 +7 European cultural sphere
4 +1 cultural scene
5 "Kulturraum"
5 s.u.
3 in civilised Europe

Discussion

silfilla Jul 22, 2005:
Kulturraum is _not_ a Renaissance term; it was coined in the 19th/20th century! A person speaking at the end of the 15th c would not have used it. Given an exceedingly bloody history, the term "civilized" is not harmless by any stretch of the imagination.
Erik Macki Jul 22, 2005:
If that's the case, then Andrew's suggestion may be best if you feel that, in context, this wording (and connotations) is in character and serves the text and story--and doesn't add a connotation the author didn't intend or a distraction to the reader.
Non-ProZ.com Jul 22, 2005:
It's the voice of a fictional Renaissance character.
Erik Macki Jul 22, 2005:
Is this quote you're using the direct speech or voice of an actual or fictional Renaissance person, or is it the voice of a 20th/21st-century writer?
silfilla Jul 22, 2005:
I'd be very careful about using language that perpetuates prejudices, stereotypes, and racism in a text where you can't add footnotes or explanations to the effect that this is meant to reflect usage at the time etc.
silfilla Jul 22, 2005:
There's no need to translate Kulturraum as "civilized Europe." It simply refers to the sphere of European culture; I'd use plain old "Europe." As to the unfortunate connotations: Europe justified its colonial expansion as a "civilizing mission"!
Non-ProZ.com Jul 22, 2005:
Hello all! Many thanks for the contributions so far! At the moment I'm thinking that "civilised Europe", despite all the comments to the contrary, is the best option here. It's part of a script to be read aloud, so unfortunately footnotes, explanations and foreign words are out - it's got to be easily understood "at first hearing"! I'd like to ask about the "unfortunate historical connotations" of using "civilised Europe" here - please could you elaborate? I should say, though, that some of these characters are VERY un-PC - they are deliberately designed to reflect the prejudices and opinions of the period.

Proposed translations

+5
1 hr
German term (edited): eurpäischer Kulturraum
Selected

Europe

The expression "europäischer Kulturraum" strikes me as a verbose synonym for simply "Europa." (How exactly is the europaeischer Kulturraum different from Europe itself?) You could cdertainly use some kind of expression like "the European cultural area" (cf. Langenscheidt). Good writing in English is succinct, not wordy, however, so to honor English teachers everywhere let me advocate using simply "Europe."
Peer comment(s):
neutral Lancashireman : Q: How exactly is the europaeischer Kulturraum different from Europe itself? A: In the Renaissance period there were still many uncivilised parts of the continent. (Check the context given above)
9 mins
agree Fantutti (X) : Oh yes, just 'Europe'. Kulturraum refers to the culture of a specific GEOGRAPHIC region whether it be 'civilized' or not. And, by the way, there's not much call for books in so-called 'uncivilized' areas, but that's self-understood.
3 hrs
agree Rahel H. : Although it's a Renaissance context, the language is modern-day German, isn't it.
4 hrs
agree Kieran McCann : 'Raum' is meant geographically imo
10 hrs
agree Francis Lee (X) : It's probably what they mean, as Europe did not yet have any colonies, and the Ottoman-ruled Balkans are prob. included as well.
10 hrs
agree silfilla : indeed!
14 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "In this case I went for Europe. Thanks *very* much for all the enlightening discussion - always appreciated!"
+1
12 mins

cultural scene

enjoys over.....


hth

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 mins (2005-07-21 23:41:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

p.s.: or, why not, just \"culture\" :)
Peer comment(s):
neutral ENGSOL : perhaps just *Europe* would do the trick! :-) / That's what I thought you meant :-) ... although I feel there's a slight 'geographical element' missing in that option // ...good night!
13 mins
I mean European culture :)... good night ! No, nothing is missing.. Hilary posted "Kulturraum" , so I answered accordingly...I may be oldish but I can still read :)))) besitos y sonrisasssssssssss
agree swisstell
1 hr
neutral writeaway : cultural scene is pretty much modern day English-perhaps a bit too 'hip' for the Renaissance era
1 hr
neutral Francis Lee (X) : not sure style-wise (see writeaway's comment) - but it depends on what sort of language hilary's using (e.g. mock medieval or modern)
13 hrs
Something went wrong...
+7
1 hr

European cultural sphere

maybe, for this context
Peer comment(s):
agree Jan Vano
2 hrs
agree Mario Marcolin : possibly vague enough
4 hrs
agree BrigitteHilgner : Given that the original stresses the "culture" aspect,, I think we also need the "culture" aspect in the translation.
5 hrs
agree Ulrike Kraemer : Agree with Brigitte.
7 hrs
agree Lori Dendy-Molz : or "realm of European culture"
9 hrs
neutral Francis Lee (X) : maybe "(European) sphere of cultural influence"?/OK, I just wasn't too hot on "European cultural sphere"
10 hrs
isn't that sort of implied?
agree silfilla : also with idwerk and francis
15 hrs
agree Maria Ferstl
1 day 7 hrs
Something went wrong...
7 hrs

"Kulturraum"

One of those terms that cannot really be translated successfully. I would leave it as "Kulturraum", similarly to other words such as "Weltanschauung" which are accepted into the English Language.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Francis Lee (X) : maybe in an academic treatise, but not here; "Kulturraum" is not as familiar a term as e.g. Zeitgeist
1 day 5 hrs
Something went wrong...
18 hrs

s.u.

uses of Kulturraum:

Angloamerikanischer Kulturraum: Sprache und Literatur
http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/archiv/nel/neu_103/e1.htm

(Huiyi , dt. Vereinigung der Bedeutungen ) – Zeichen ([mehr über Zeichen]
Dieser Artikel ... werden im chinesischen Kulturraum, anders als in Südasien, ...
www.lex.izynews.de/lex/Chinesische_Schrift

dt. Wörterbuch (zB Langenscheidt Großes Schulwörterbuch, Stowasser oder Pons).
... von Frauen im deutschen Kulturraum 1730-1918, in: Internationales Archiv ...
www.fu-berlin.de/vorlesungsverzeichnis/ ws0405/004001001001001001.html

Die Wurzeln des dt. Hexe finden sich nur im westgermanischen Sprachraum: ...
Der Hexenbegriff im europäisch-amerikanischen Kulturraum hat dagegen eine ...
www.lexikon.freenet.de/Hexe

siertes laienverständliches Wörterbuch zur Bibel, das mehr ... Kulturraum der in
der Bibel genannten Ereignisse. Bild- und ...
www.eo-bamberg.de/eob/opencms/sites/bistum/glauben/jahr_der...

dots per inch; dt.: Punkte pro Zoll) Gibt an, wie viel Bildpunkte ein Ausgabegerät
auf einem ... Im arabischen und asiatischen Kulturraum kann ein Buchstabe ...
www.decodeunicode.org/index.php?nodeId=100034& page=&lang=1&zoom=&prop=

Rotwelschen von Wolf (1956), mit denen im Wörterbuch der deutschen Umgangssprache
von ... germanischen Sprache in einem multilingualen Kulturraum. ...
www.fh.ug.gda.pl/images/katny.pdf

ALL of the above examples -- and there are thousands more -- show that *Kulturraum* has _nothing whatsoever_ to do with "civilized." Kulturraum simply refers to a *cultural region*, an area where one or more languages, cultures prevail.
Something went wrong...
4 mins
German term (edited): im europäischen Kulturraum

in civilised Europe

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q="in civilised Europe"&hl=en...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs 20 mins (2005-07-22 16:43:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Hello Hilary
Erik must speak for himself, of course. I suspect, though, that he is worried about the \'connotations\' of the word \'Kulturvolk\' which was a catch-phrase in the Third Reich. His anxieties need not, however, be projected onto the perfectly harmless English word \'civilised\'.
My large Collins Dictionary and the online Leo give two translations for \'Kultur\': \'culture\' and \'civilisation\'. A contemporary writer (late 15th Century) would regard Europe as the civilised continent and some parts of Europe as more civilised than others. The 216 direct google references sometimes employ ironical quote marks (in ‘civilised’ Europe). This might placate some of the critics on this page. From the context I would deduce that the writer means exactly what he/she says. It is not the job of a translator to clean up somebody’s act or bowdlerise their thoughts.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 22 hrs 51 mins (2005-07-24 22:15:13 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Asker: At the moment I\'m thinking that \"civilised Europe\", despite all the comments to the contrary, is the best option here.
silfilla: There\'s no need to translate Kulturraum as \"civilized Europe.\" It simply refers to the sphere of European culture; I\'d use plain old \"Europe.\" As to the unfortunate connotations: Europe justified its colonial expansion as a \"civilizing mission\"!
silfilla: I\'d be very careful about using language that perpetuates prejudices, stereotypes, and racism in a text where you can\'t add footnotes or explanations to the effect that this is meant to reflect usage at the time etc.
silfilla: Kulturraum is _not_ a Renaissance term; it was coined in the 19th/20th century! A person speaking at the end of the 15th c would not have used it. Given an exceedingly bloody history, the term \"civilized\" is not harmless by any stretch of the imagination
silfilla: ALL of the above examples -- and there are thousands more -- show that *Kulturraum* has _nothing whatsoever_ to do with \"civilized.\" Kulturraum simply refers to a *cultural region*, an area where one or more languages, cultures prevail.
Asker: In this case I went for Europe...
Peer comment(s):
agree ENGSOL : fits well in this context (I was going to suggest a horrible-sounding *cultural area* before I re-read the question! :-) / Thanks, Andrew. Cp. this interesting article :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbarians
18 mins
Thanks, Thomas. Do revisit this question. It has become quite lively since Thursday evening!
neutral Erik Macki : I think this phrasing raises certain unfortunate historical connotations that are inappropriate for this particular context.
1 hr
"...certain unfortunate historical connotations..."? Don't be coy. Tell us what they are. What makes you think the author of the original text is bound by modern PC considerations?// Thanks for the subsequent comment/agree posted in the AtA box :-)
neutral Mario Marcolin : possibly, though I think europäischen Kulturraum is larger than geographical Europe
6 hrs
Was ist ein "estado civil"? central in Spanien, principal in Venezuela. Hier handelt es sich ja um ein Register des Staates und nicht der Gemeinde. Also ein Zentralregister. Weitere Anmerkungen in der Antwort. Liebe Grüße Karlo
neutral Stephen Roche : as opposed to uncivilised Europe?/Just noticed the 40 years part, so this doesn't have quite the same connotation. Even so, I don't think there was complete agreement even in the late 16th Century as to what was civilised and what uncivilised in Europe.
13 hrs
neutral writeaway : wow-never thought of the Renaissance as the period of civilised Europe as opposed to uncivilised Europe but guess that's the way Asker sees it. So much for the wild bunch of crazies without print........
16 hrs
disagree silfilla : the source text was not written in the late 15th century!!! -- your suggestion is inappropriate // The asker asked a question. I answered it.
16 hrs
It's older than the Simpson's - I know it from my childhood, which was B.S. (before Simpson's)
neutral Francis Lee (X) : a very subjective term, and one that could work in this (fictional) context, except I think they mean sphere of European cultural influence, which at the time was in effect just Europe
1 day 13 hrs
thanks, Maria :-)
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