Poll: Have you ever had issues with a client's internal reviewer's unjustified revisions? Persoa que publicou o fío: ProZ.com Staff
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This forum topic is for the discussion of the poll question "Have you ever had issues with a client's internal reviewer's unjustified revisions?".
View the poll results »
| | | | Richard Jenkins 
Brazil
Local time: 08:54
Membro (2006)
Portuguese to English
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There reality is that reviewers are jostling for position and just as insecure as we are, so will sometimes look for faults to justify their fee, which can be frustrating and can feel rather jobsworth, or sometimes we just don't like to accept that we make mistakes and do occasionally need third-party review and correction.
As long as we're grown up about it and accept that we all make mistakes because we're not machines, everything should be fine and we can get on with our jobs, wh... See more There reality is that reviewers are jostling for position and just as insecure as we are, so will sometimes look for faults to justify their fee, which can be frustrating and can feel rather jobsworth, or sometimes we just don't like to accept that we make mistakes and do occasionally need third-party review and correction.
As long as we're grown up about it and accept that we all make mistakes because we're not machines, everything should be fine and we can get on with our jobs, which is ironic when you consider that machines do far worse translations than we do but are not held culpable or responsible. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mario Freitas
Brazil
Local time: 08:54
Membro (2014)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
I already have a phrase saved in a file to cut and paste after I refuse 80% of the changes made by these unfortunate revisers, and make all possible comments about their incompetence:
"The translation was quite a bit better before the revision. I suggest you deliver the file I sent you and ignore the reviser's changes. It will please the client a lot more."
[Edited at 2021-10-01 00:53 GMT]
| | | | Liena Vijupe
Latvia
Local time: 13:54
Membro (2014)
French to Latvian
+ ...
I work with creative/marketing content and it is quite common that reviewers make changes because they focus too much on the exact meaning of separate words or follow the rules too strictly without considering the actual context, but I don't usually argue about that.
There have been a couple occasions, however, when the reviewer had completely ruined my entire work. I had to explain it to the client and they promised not to work with that reviewer again. Oh, and I almost forgot abou... See more I work with creative/marketing content and it is quite common that reviewers make changes because they focus too much on the exact meaning of separate words or follow the rules too strictly without considering the actual context, but I don't usually argue about that.
There have been a couple occasions, however, when the reviewer had completely ruined my entire work. I had to explain it to the client and they promised not to work with that reviewer again. Oh, and I almost forgot about all the times when a client's "reviewer" doesn't even know my language and I had to justify my translations because back-translation with Google doesn't match the original... ▲ Collapse
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Over the years I haven’t had bad experiences with proofreaders/reviewers/editors. Most of my translations are proofread in-house and my clients know this (and pay for it). I work with a few translation agencies that have their own proofreaders but we managed to develop a very pleasant and fruitful relationship. For the last 10 years or so, I have been working with three different agencies that employ the same editor, this means that we know each other work quite well and we trust each other. I... See more Over the years I haven’t had bad experiences with proofreaders/reviewers/editors. Most of my translations are proofread in-house and my clients know this (and pay for it). I work with a few translation agencies that have their own proofreaders but we managed to develop a very pleasant and fruitful relationship. For the last 10 years or so, I have been working with three different agencies that employ the same editor, this means that we know each other work quite well and we trust each other. I must say that we only had a slight disagreement once. The only issue related to proofing was a few years back when one of my long-standing customers (a Japanese company) decided to pick a Spanish proofreader for the texts I translate (I translate exclusively into European Portuguese) and it took some time and a LOT of emails back and forth for him to understand that Spanish and Portuguese, though related, are quite different. On another instance a proofreader replaced the Portuguese verb “hesitar” by “exitar” [for those who don’t speak Portuguese a correct verb was turned into a nonexistent verb in PT(pt)]. ▲ Collapse
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The main issue used to be sweaty hands at the beginning. When agencies came back with feedback like "Look, there are a lot of changes, what's happened, can you tell me about it", I used to think "How come could my work be anything else than smashingly perfect?" or, alternatively, "Why on earth was my translation reviewed by the only person in the universe who can't grasp how excellent it is?".
Nowadays, I am much more comfortable with those situations. Perhaps my vividly blinding au... See more The main issue used to be sweaty hands at the beginning. When agencies came back with feedback like "Look, there are a lot of changes, what's happened, can you tell me about it", I used to think "How come could my work be anything else than smashingly perfect?" or, alternatively, "Why on earth was my translation reviewed by the only person in the universe who can't grasp how excellent it is?".
Nowadays, I am much more comfortable with those situations. Perhaps my vividly blinding aura of experience, skilfulness, competence and aptitudes is instrumental in making people think that I only make justified errors.
So basically, either revisions are actual improvements and I bury my head in the sand and self-whip myself while apologizing profusely to the claiming party, or they're a fly's dropping on an all-time masterpiece and I patiently and methodically annihilate any trust the customer may have left in the reviewer, or the reviewer themselves.
Or I don't mind one way or the other and the reviewer has the last word, because reviewing reviewed reviewer's work is often counter-productive.
Or the reviewer is the end user and they always know better than me about using "matcher" or "sécure" (fictitious examples).
Philippe ▲ Collapse
| | | | Thayenga
Germany
Local time: 12:54
Membro (2009)
English to German
+ ...
It happened maybe three or four times in the course of the years. One case I remember particularly when the reviewer, obviously not a native German, tried to convince my customer that her abundant changes were justified. Knowing my own language, I had no problem to make my customer agree that these changes were oftentimes based on the reviewer's personal preferences (only one or two of the dozen words were possibly a little more "catching"), and that the reviewer had, in fact, made several mista... See more It happened maybe three or four times in the course of the years. One case I remember particularly when the reviewer, obviously not a native German, tried to convince my customer that her abundant changes were justified. Knowing my own language, I had no problem to make my customer agree that these changes were oftentimes based on the reviewer's personal preferences (only one or two of the dozen words were possibly a little more "catching"), and that the reviewer had, in fact, made several mistakes in the "correction". A couple of days later my customer informed me that the agency was now looking for a new reviewer.
[Edited at 2021-10-02 09:35 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 14:54
Membro
English to Turkish
| Customer is always right | Oct 1, 2021 |
Isn't there a time-honoured saying that goes "Customer is always right"? They're right even when they're wrong. It does one no good to contradict with them, justified or unjustified.
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Thayenga
Germany
Local time: 12:54
Membro (2009)
English to German
+ ...
| Under normal circumstances | Oct 1, 2021 |
Baran Keki wrote:
Isn't there a time-honoured saying that goes "Customer is always right"? They're right even when they're wrong. It does one no good to contradict with them, justified or unjustified.
The customer is always right. However, when s/he returns the reviewed file and then learns that the reviewer made mistakes, a wise customer will always listen to professional advice.
One thing is for certain though, the reviewer is not always right.
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Baran Keki wrote:
Isn't there a time-honoured saying that goes "Customer is always right"? They're right even when they're wrong
Often, the whole point of their revisions is to demand a discount by claiming the translation is non-compliant (some of them will do their best to withhold payment altogether, at least if the contract so permits), and in this case, it makes a ton of sense to try and convince them that their revisions don't make the translation any better. In my case, it's never a big problem (unless something has actually slipped my mind due to my lack of attention to detail), but I do have to deal with such feedback; it's usually all about the fact that I use my brain when translating and this results in quite a lot of paraphrasing (like, "why is this key term not translated in this sentense?" "oh, it's because it is translated in the end of the preceding sentense and properly referred to in this one to avoid repetition" – true story, btw)
| | | | John Fossey
Canada
Local time: 06:54
Membro (2008)
French to English
+ ...
| Not always right | Oct 1, 2021 |
Baran Keki wrote:
Isn't there a time-honoured saying that goes "Customer is always right"? They're right even when they're wrong. It does one no good to contradict with them, justified or unjustified.
Like the client I once had - not native English - who insisted that the plural of "sheep" is "sheeps". In the end I stopped arguing and let him have his website the way he wanted.
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 14:54
Membro
English to Turkish
John Fossey wrote:
In the end I stopped arguing and let him have his website the way he wanted.
That's why I said "They're 'right' even when they're wrong", and they are more often than not wrong.
But they get their way in the end, and insisting on the point (knowing full well the PMs won't let you change any of the corrections coming from the client) will only alienate the PMs, especially if the target language is an 'exotic' one that the PM has no clue what you're talking about.
I don't care if the client's salaried reviewer wishes to correct my translation of "site visit" as "site trip". It's entirely up to them to go embarrass themselves.
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Kevin Fulton
United States
Local time: 06:54
German to English
I translate for medical journals among other things. The authors are generally recognized experts in their respective fields. Some seem to have an excellent knowledge of English, others "can" English. Occasionally a project manager will send back a manuscript with changes marked by the author. Generally the author has preferred a simpler word, sometimes in a lower register. I try to vary the vocabulary using suitable synonyms (e.g., "utilize") rather than writing the same word ("use") five times... See more I translate for medical journals among other things. The authors are generally recognized experts in their respective fields. Some seem to have an excellent knowledge of English, others "can" English. Occasionally a project manager will send back a manuscript with changes marked by the author. Generally the author has preferred a simpler word, sometimes in a lower register. I try to vary the vocabulary using suitable synonyms (e.g., "utilize") rather than writing the same word ("use") five times in a row. One author objected to my use of "employ" (as in "we employed various transducers"), claiming that "employ means to hire people" and that it was the wrong word in any case. A few times authors have supplemented sections of the translations with additional text, causing the project managers to ask whether I had left sentences out of my translation. In the case of the former, I let all but the most egregious changes go. With respect to the latter, a simple explanation to the PM suffices.
Apart from that, most shortcomings discovered in my translations have been of my own doing, and I accept responsibility for all of them. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:54
Membro (2008)
Italian to English
| Nobody is infallible | Oct 2, 2021 |
ProZ.com Staff wrote:
This forum topic is for the discussion of the poll question "Have you ever had issues with a client's internal reviewer's unjustified revisions?". View the poll results »
A lot depends on the tone in which any criticism is advanced. If it's kindly and understanding - even if severe - I will be cooperative and learn from my experience. If it's nasty, no.
[Edited at 2021-10-02 09:00 GMT]
| | | | | Definitely - though rarely! | Oct 2, 2021 |
I have deleted several rants, both here and on other sites, because I am still fuming about a review I have received in instalments in the last few days.
The first was a descriptive text - around 6000 source words, 7500 target, where I had really done my homework, read up on the background, and used dictionaries, thesauri and 40+ years of living with the source language... The reviewer sent it back with more than 800 changes, shifted the focus by altering the verb tenses, and insert... See more I have deleted several rants, both here and on other sites, because I am still fuming about a review I have received in instalments in the last few days.
The first was a descriptive text - around 6000 source words, 7500 target, where I had really done my homework, read up on the background, and used dictionaries, thesauri and 40+ years of living with the source language... The reviewer sent it back with more than 800 changes, shifted the focus by altering the verb tenses, and inserted generic terms where the source deliberately used colourful expressions.
Then there were a couple of contracts, and this person rewrote those too.
Just because I admitted the first text was open to interpretation in places, and that there were one or two good suggestions in the review... I know I am not perfect, and I am usually grateful to reviewers, so I was quite shaken this time! ▲ Collapse
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