| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Is translating people’s names out of date in 2022? Thread poster: Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida
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Mario Cerutti wrote: Thomas T. Frost wrote:
'Poutine' is not a mistake in French. It matches the correct pronunciation and avoids confusion with 'putain' (prostitute), which is pronounced the same way as 'Putin' would be.
Yet, I find that altering a name this way is fundamentally wrong, if nothing else because it could lead to confusion. I wouldn't like if some people wrote my surname with some alterations just because it doesn't sound right in their language. They could pronounce it whatever they like, but for me "Poutine" is completely different from "Putin", whom might laugh loud if he saw it. [Edited at 2022-10-04 07:16 GMT]
And yet many brand names were compelled to be renamed because they were clearly rude in other languages.
| | | | expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 07:43
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
| And surnames... | Oct 4, 2022 |
Teresa Borges wrote: Mario Cerutti wrote:
I wouldn't like if some people wrote my surname with some alterations just because it doesn't sound right in their language. They could pronounce it whatever they like, but for me "Poutine" is completely different from "Putin", whom might laugh loud if he saw it.
[Edited at 2022-10-04 07:16 GMT] And yet many brand names were compelled to be renamed because they were clearly rude in other languages.
"Football in Switzerland – FC Zurich dismisses coach Franco Foda"
https://www.archysport.com/2022/09/football-in-switzerland-fc-zurich-dismisses-coach-franco-foda-sport/
With that surname, I really wouldn't mind some tiny alterations because it would sound very rude in my native language 
| | | | | Buttressing a brand against ridicule | Oct 4, 2022 |
Teresa Borges wrote:
And yet many brand names were compelled to be renamed because they were clearly rude in other languages.
If the Dutch bank Rabobank (which means 'Butt Bank' in Portuguese) were to provide retail banking services in Portugal, they would probably use another brand.
Marketing slogans such as, 'with our banking services, you'll never end up on your butt' probably wouldn't cut the mustard.
| | | | Kay Denney 
France
Local time: 08:43
French to English
Mario Cerutti wrote:
I wouldn't like if some people wrote my surname with some alterations just because it doesn't sound right in their language. They could pronounce it whatever they like, but for me "Poutine" is completely different from "Putin", whom might laugh loud if he saw it.
[Edited at 2022-10-04 07:16 GMT]
Given that it's not even the same alphabet, I think it's perfectly logical for the name to be transcribed in each language to ensure pronunciation that's at least close to the original.
As explained above, the French spelling avoids his name being pronounced like a French word, not the most polite, meaning "prostitute". I'm pretty sure he'd appreciate such delicacy. Not for nothing is French the language of diplomacy!
Although of course he might also take exception to the fact that "Poutine" in Quebec is a speciality involving chips smothered in gravy (since the invasion of Ukraine, restaurants have had to put disclaimers on their menu to explain that it's a local speciality, nothing to do with Vlad).
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Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 08:43
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
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| Let’s check John | Oct 4, 2022 |
Other language forms for the name John:
Chon
Dzon, Džon (Congolese, Serbian)
Ean (Manx)
Eóin (Irish)
Evan (Welsh)
Ganix (Basque)
Giăng (Vietnamese, Protestant Giăng)
Giannina (Italian)
Gioan (Vietnamese, Catholic Gioan)
Gioann (West-Lombard)
Giovanni, Gianni (Italian)
Giuàn (Emiliano-Romagnolo)
Gion
Gjon, Gjoni or Gjin (Albanian)
Hannes (German from Johannes)
Hannu (Finnish)
Hans (Du... See more Other language forms for the name John:
Chon
Dzon, Džon (Congolese, Serbian)
Ean (Manx)
Eóin (Irish)
Evan (Welsh)
Ganix (Basque)
Giăng (Vietnamese, Protestant Giăng)
Giannina (Italian)
Gioan (Vietnamese, Catholic Gioan)
Gioann (West-Lombard)
Giovanni, Gianni (Italian)
Giuàn (Emiliano-Romagnolo)
Gion
Gjon, Gjoni or Gjin (Albanian)
Hannes (German from Johannes)
Hannu (Finnish)
Hans (Dutch, German, Swedish from Johannes)
Henna (Arabic: حنّا)
Hoani (Māori) [1]
Hone (Māori) [2]
Honza (Czech)
Hovanes or Hovannes (Armenian)
Ian (English)
Iain (Scottish Gaelic—common form, though Ian is used in English)
Ianto (Welsh)
Ibane, Ibon (Basque)
Ifan (Welsh)
Ioan (Romanian, Welsh)
Ioane (Samoan)
Ioannis (Greek)
Ion (Romanian, Basque)
Ionel (Romanian)
Ieuan (Welsh)
Ivan (Bulgarian, Croatian, Russian, Ukrainian and other Slavic language nations)
Ivanko (Ukrainian)
Ivo (Croatian and some other Slavic language nations)
Jaan (Estonian)
Jack (nickname for John; not traditionally a name in itself)
Jan (Catalan, Czech, Dutch, Polish, Norwegian)
Ján (Slovak)
Jani (Finnish)
Janez (Slovene)
Jānis (Latvian)
Janko (Slovak, Hungarian)
Janek (Czech)
Janne (Finnish)
János (Hungarian)
Jăvan (Chuvash)
Jean (French)
Jens (Danish)
Jhon (Colombian)
Jhonas (Hebrew)
Joan (Catalan)
Joanes (Basque)
Jóannes (Faroese)
João (Portuguese)
Johaiñe (Basque from Zuberoa/Soule province)
Johan (Japanese, Dutch, Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, German, Faroese, Afrikaans)
Johann (Germanic: German, Danish, Norwegian, Swedish)
Jóhann (Icelandic, Faroese)
Johannes (Germanic: German, Danish, Norwegian, Swedish, Dutch)
Jóhannes (Icelandic)
Jon (Basque, Norwegian)
ジョン (Jon) (Japanese)
Jón
Jonas (Lithuanian, Germanic: German, Danish, Norwegian, Swedish, Dutch)
Jovan (Serbian)
Juan (Spanish, Filipino, Manx)
Juhan (Estonian)
Juhani (Finnish)
Jöns (Swedish)[3]
Manex (Basque)
Nelu (Romanian)
Nzuá (Angolan)
Ohan (Armenian)
Seán (Irish Seán, after the French Jean)
Shane (Anglicised form of Seán)
Shaun (American form of Sean)
Shawn (Anglicised form of Seán)
Sheik (Arabic)
Siôn (Welsh)
Sione (Tongan)
Soane (Tongan)
ᏣᏂ (Cherokee) in Cherokee syllabary
Xoán (Galician)
Yahya (يوحنّا, Arabic, Turkish and Persian, for John the Baptist)
Yan (Indonesian)
Yanka (Belarusian)
Yann (Breton)
Yiannis (Greek)
Vanya (Russian)
Yochanan / Yohanan (יוֹחָנָן) (Hebrew)
Yohannan (Malayalam)
Yohannes (Ethiopian)
Yohan, Yohanes (Indonesian, Malaysian)
Yohan (Sinhalese, Sri Lankan)
Yohanni (Makhuwa)
요한 (Korean)
Yonnachan (Malayalam)
Youhanna (يُوحَنّا) (Arabic and Persian, for John the Apostle)
Youhannon (Malayalam)
Yuhana (Mandaic)
約翰 [zh] (Chinese in Traditional Chinese characters, Protestant translation)
若望 [zh] (Chinese in Traditional Chinese characters, Catholic Church translation)
強 (Chinese in Traditional Chinese characters, colloquial transliteration based on English; literally "strong")
Zane
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternate_forms_for_the_name_John ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Ukrainian (to Michael Newton) | Oct 4, 2022 |
Michael Newton wrote:
In Russian, the city is "Kiev" (final "v" pronounced "f")
In Ukrainian, the city is "Kiiv".
Not quite. Ukrainian has three kinds of "i":
- и, pronounced [ɪ], as in "we" (non-palatalising)
- і, pronounced [i], as in "be" (palatalising the preceding consonant)
- ї, pronounced [ji], as in "yield"
So, Kyiv (Київ) is pronounced ['kɪjiu̯] (the final sound resembling "w" in "we")
Also not forgetting: "Odessa" in Russian and "Odesa" in Ukrainian.
This is just a general trend in Ukrainian to avoid double consonants; this trend is even stronger in Czech, where the city is spelled "Oděsa". Importantly, "e" is palatalising in all the three languages (in Czech, the diacritic mark indicates it explicitly).
I was just thinking about the relation between Russian and Ukrainian. I think the two languages may be as mutually intelligible as Castellano and Gallego. But just a guess.
Russian and Belorussian are mutually intelligible, Russian and Ukrainian much less so. I would compare the latter two to Castilian Spanish and Portuguese; in both pairs, the intelligibility is not completely mutual: Ukrainians and Portuguese have noticeably fewer problem understanding the Russian and Spanish languages respectively than the other way around.
[Edited at 2022-10-04 22:23 GMT]
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
| Ukrainian and Russian are not mutually intelligible | Oct 5, 2022 |
Btw, they also present fun and unique name-translation challenges due to different "nominally-same" Cyrillic alphabets (more below).
As to intelligibility: certain short sentences using vocabulary with the same roots and similar grammar structures are mutually intellgible, but the languages are quite different.
Much of the misunderstanding that they ARE mutually intelligible stems from many speakers' familiarity with the other language, Belarusian, or a border dialect.<... See more Btw, they also present fun and unique name-translation challenges due to different "nominally-same" Cyrillic alphabets (more below).
As to intelligibility: certain short sentences using vocabulary with the same roots and similar grammar structures are mutually intellgible, but the languages are quite different.
Much of the misunderstanding that they ARE mutually intelligible stems from many speakers' familiarity with the other language, Belarusian, or a border dialect.
Common outside knowledge and/or ability to find a way to communicate when necessary in context are not the same thing as the ability to comprehend randomly selected text or speech.
What IS mutually intellgible:
Russian + Belarusian speakers > mostly understand Ukrainian
Russian + Ukrainian speakers > mostly understand Belarusian
As to written Ukrainian, it uses some additional letters, lacks a couple letters from Russian, AND uses "и" for a different sound then Russian (UKR "и" = RUS "ы", RUS "и" = UKR "і"). Due to their near-ubiquitous use in names, it creates an odd partial-transliteration tradition. Russian transliteration tradition typically leaves "и" as it appears despite it sounding different, but also spells "і" the same (so ий and ій become the same). If names can be typed with the same characters, they are typically left alone, and if not, some basic sometimes-phonetic-sometimes-not substitution is used. Common Christian first names are typically Russified, others are transcribed.
Meanwhile, Ukrainian typically phonetically transcribes Russian last names and often Ukrainianizes common Russian Christian names (think Charles-Karl/John-Johann style).
[Edited at 2022-10-05 03:46 GMT]
[Edited at 2022-10-05 03:47 GMT]
[Edited at 2022-10-05 03:48 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | P.L.F. Persio
Netherlands
Local time: 08:43
Member (2010)
English to Italian
+ ...
| That is partially true, but | Oct 5, 2022 |
Kaspars Melkis wrote: P.L.F. Persio wrote:
In Russian, it's pronounced Putin, just like in Italian. In Russian [t] gets palatalized that in some languages is considered a different sound. In Latvian the Russian pronunciation would be written as Puķin.
In Russian, "T" is usually pronounced like in Italian, French, Spanish, German, and so on.
In Putin, it's slightly palatized because it's followed by "i" (и), but when I hear Russians speaking, I hear Putin, not Puchin, Putsin, or what have you.
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Michael Newton
United States
Local time: 02:43
Japanese to English
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| people's names | Oct 5, 2022 |
Not forgetting the interesting rendering of "Cinderella" in Greek which is "Stakhtoputa".
| | | | Adieu
Ukrainian to English
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| Such things have actually happened (a lot!) | Oct 5, 2022 |
Brands Blue Water bottled water (sounds like "blevota" = barf) and Dosirac ramen noodles (contains a vernacular root for diarrhea) were adapted to "Water Blue" and "Doshirak" for Russian-speaking areas
Thomas T. Frost wrote: Teresa Borges wrote:
And yet many brand names were compelled to be renamed because they were clearly rude in other languages. If the Dutch bank Rabobank (which means 'Butt Bank' in Portuguese) were to provide retail banking services in Portugal, they would probably use another brand. Marketing slogans such as, 'with our banking services, you'll never end up on your butt' probably wouldn't cut the mustard.
| | | | | How about the German Aschenputtel? | Oct 5, 2022 |
Michael Newton wrote:
Not forgetting the interesting rendering of "Cinderella" in Greek which is "Stakhtoputa".
I remember how, as kids, we'd make a scary face and roar, "Aschenputten!!!" (that was how we'd heard it). To me, the Russian Zolushka sounds about as good as Cinderella, but way more tender
| | | | | An innocent name in Portuguese… | Oct 5, 2022 |
that sounds very inappropriate in Italian. My daughter named her dog after a beautiful beach in Portugal called Tróia, those of you that speak Italian will understand the shocked look on my Italian neighbour’s face when I told him what her name was.
P.S. I speak some Italian, but no rude names at all...
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:43
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Teresa Borges wrote:
that sounds very inappropriate in Italian. My daughter named her dog after a beautiful beach in Portugal called Tróia, those of you that speak Italian will understand the shocked look on my Italian neighbour’s face when I told him what her name was.
P.S. I speak some Italian, but no rude names at all...
I used to have a work colleague in Italy whose surname was Facchinetti. I advised him that if any English person ever asked him his surname, he should not reply.
English-speaking readers here will understand why.
[Edited at 2022-10-05 15:21 GMT]
| | | | | Just like Facchinetti... | Oct 5, 2022 |
Many years ago, my English sister-in law couldn’t understand what my sister and I were talking about when we were setting the table (we are a large family), the problem was that knife is called faca in Portuguese…
| | | | expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 07:43
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
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